Episode 42 - Rock the Vote! with Nadia Shireen

In this episode we talk with Nadia Shireen about the mad and upredictable world of Grimwood and book five in the series, Rock the Vote! which has recently come out in paperback. 

Listen in to find out where Nadia gets her ideas from, how she writes, why illustrations are so important and what Titus's best cake would be.

Nadia can be found on Instagram here

Her Grimwood books can be found here:

Grimwood

Grimwood: Let the fur fly!

Grimwood: Attack of the Stink Monster!

Grimwood: Party Animals

Grimwood: Rock the Vote!

Transcript

Katy 0:11

Hi, I'm Katie.

Ali 0:12

Hi, I'm Ali. And welcome to Mostly Book Talk episode 42. Where we talk to Nadia Shereen about her Grimwood Rock the Vote, which is book five. It's book five in the Anarchic series.

Katy 0:28

Anarchic is the word. And it's great fun. Enjoy. So we are very pleased to have with us today Nadia Shereen. She is the author and illustrator of many picture books, including Good Little Wolf, which was a favourite in our house, and Barbara Thraser Wobbler, and also the middle grade Grimwood series, which I think can only really be described as slightly mad and uh anarchic fun. And the fifth book of her Grimwood series, Rock the Vote, is just out in paperback. And she also has a sixth book in the series coming out in September. So welcome, Nadia.

Nadia 1:09

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Katy 1:11

Can we start with where the idea for the whole slightly mud universe of Grimwood came from?

Nadia 1:17

Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in the West Midlands. I grew up in Shropshire, pretty quiet part of the country. Bits of it are very rural, bits are semi-rural, and then there's a new town, Telford, right in the middle of it. And back then, I think Telford's really changed. But back then, about 30, 40 years ago when I was growing up, the contrast between the two was quite pronounced. So you'd get the motorway, new roundabouts, industrial parks, and then 10 miles away you get beautiful Shropshire Hills. So without realising it, I think I was absorbing this kind of environment. And I was like, I don't think I live in a city. I definitely don't live in London. Do I live in the beautiful countryside that I read about in The Wind and the Willows and Winnie the Pooh? No, not quite that either. I seem to live in an in-between place. And a lot of this is subconscious, I should say, by the way. But I've traced back Grimwood to beginning in me looking out of the window at grass verges by retail parks and seeing bunnies hopping around and going, This isn't quite the countryside, and then walking through lovely bits of countryside, but then seeing a discarded shopping trolley or like a hedgehog that's exploded. Because nature and the countryside, if you do live in any proximity to it, it is also weird and dark and strange, as well as being beautiful. And so fast forward 40 odd years, and when it came to me just idly thinking about story ideas, I kept coming back to this idea. Like Winnie the Pooh, those Winnie the Pooh books, adored them. And I used to love as a kid The Animals of Farthen Wood by Colin Dan, that series. Don't know if you're familiar. So I loved reading about nature and the countryside and this very English butolic countryside. But then marrying it with my reality, this kind of slightly battier reality of the countryside, and thinking it would be really fun to subvert that. I I'm keen on subversion. I like flipping ideas around. Oh, it'd be fun to do a countryside book, but it's not quite as cozy, maybe, as some of the other ones that we've seen. It's like Beatrice Potter, but gone wrong. And that's what I wanted to lead with. And then I was living in London at the time, and urban foxes are everywhere. But I was standing at a bus stop and I saw a fox cross the road with a bag of chips in its mouth, and I thought, looks like the fox has been to the chippy and gone, yeah, I'll have some chicken nuggets and chips, please, and a catophanta. So that just sparked off the idea of these urban foxes with mobile phones who go to Pizza Hut and stuff. So it was a mishmash of all those ideas. That's how Grimwood was born.

Ali 4:05

I was just thinking when you were talking about Beatrix Potter, the kind of contrast between the mother of the rabbits in Grimwood and the mother of Peter Rabbit.

Nadia 4:15

I'm a parent and it just always amuses me that mums in these books are always, here's a lovely jam roly-poly. Oh, let's darn your sock. Because that's not my experience of motherhood or any other parents I know. It tends to be a lot more frenzied. I wanted her to reflect that a little bit.

Katy 4:36

I love the way that there's a moving count in terms of the number of her babies. Yeah.

Nadia 4:41

She's not really quite sure, is she, how many she has. There's no fits number. Rock the vote is a fifth book, and by that point, you've created a sitcom, so you know what the character's going to do, and there are lots of running jokes. And one of the running jokes is whenever Willow refers to her brothers or sisters, or Flora refers to her children. It's I've got 365 brothers and sisters, or it's 570. It the number changes around.

Katy 5:06

The number changes around. So when you started out with that first story, did you have this whole world of Grimwood mapped out?

Nadia 5:14

It wasn't that massively strictly mapped out, but I knew that I wanted to create an environment, a self-contained environment. I can't pretend that it was strictly mapped out. There were like a few key areas I knew that I would have. Like there's a disused electricity pylon that the animals called the Magic Tower. I definitely wanted that there because I definitely wanted man-made, slightly ugly man-made architecture within the countryside. Yeah. Because I think that's just interesting. So that was always there. And I realise also looking back, that's based on a huge kind of radio tower on top of a hill that I used to live near a hill in Shropshire called the Reekin. And on top of the Reekin, yeah, it's the biggest hill in Shropshire, you can see it, but on top of it, there's this kind of radio tower or something tower. And the contrast of that always stuck in my mind. So it's the nod to that. So that was always there. I needed a pond for ducks. So that's so there's a small pond, which is called the small pond. To be honest with you, the landscape of Grimwood developed as I was writing it, as the characters needed environments, they appeared. So it's no. I wish you see those beautiful books where people have done a gorgeous map and you're like, oh, they've spent hours planning out this world. No, Grimwood's not like that. It's very much the experience of reading and writing Grimwood, I always describe it as like being thrown into a barrel with a load of gummy bears and pushed down a hill. And that's what it's like. That's what it's like for me when I'm writing it as well.

Ali 6:50

That sounds perfect. So Rock the Vote is the fifth book. Do you want to give us a brief overview of what happens in this instalment?

Nadia 6:58

Sure. So in Grimwood, there are various different creatures, and one of the creatures is a stag called Titus, who's a lovely, noble, friendly old stag, and he is the mayor of Grimwood. He's quite an ineffectual mare because he keeps bursting into tears. Like he's very emotionally fragile. He loves like the great British Bacoff, romantic comedies, like those are his things that he cares about. And he's a lovely stag, but he's also exhausted because he tries to do his best, helping everyone. And so we open with him running around Grimwood, trying desperately to teach Widdy the Badger how to read, help Flora with feeding the babies and all sorts of things. And he basically has a revelation when he bumps into Krusty McTavish, who's the mayor of neighbouring Twintlenuts Forest, and he's looking really chilled because he's retired. Titus learns the word retire because he's never heard that word before. And the idea that he could just stop being mayor and have a big rest is introduced to him, which overwhelms him. So he decides to retire, which then obviously throws open the position of mayor to the animals of Grimwood. And there is a leadership race, there is a general election of sorts. That's the main thrust of the plot behind Rock of the Vote. Is who's gonna be the new mayor of Grimwood.

Katy 8:24

Were you trying to say anything about democracy, or is that reading too much into it?

Nadia 8:30

I mean I'm very like chaos first. Yeah. If messaging follows, that happens organically as I'm writing it. I think with Rot the Vote, it definitely has more than any other book. Just because I just couldn't help it as I was writing about an election, I couldn't help some archetypes creep into the book. I have to be conscious that not everyone's in England, and I don't expect every kind of six-year-old, seven-year-old to be particularly clued up on British politics. So you can't be too overindulgent with this kind of thing. That said, regardless of what country you're in or what politics your family is engaged in or not, there are archetypes that that pop up across the board. So I suppose, yeah, they've definitely crept in. You've definitely got a bit of strong man populist politics coming in in the shape of a new character called Steve Nasty. The animals in Brimwood aren't sure. Imagine what he's like. The animals in Brimwood aren't sure if he's nice or nasty. His name is Steve Nasty. So Sharon the Party Crow is a popular character in Brimwood. She's like a joyful anarchist who just believes in partying all the time and shouts a wooder a wooder and lets off party puppies. So she is the monster raven loony party. The party is the name of her party. Because they just believe in partying. We don't really have an equivalent of Sharon the Party Crow in British politics at least. Yeah. Maybe we need one.

Katy 10:00

We could probably do without Pamela, couldn't we?

Nadia 10:02

Yeah, Pamela's unfortunate. So for those who don't know, so Pamela's an eagle. She's slightly deranged and she lives on top of the magic tower, this disused electricity pylon. She kind of chews on the electricity pylons and the electricity cables in her spare time. Which is obviously fatal for most creatures, but not Pamela. And she's an anarchic presence in every Drumwood book. And she does choose violence. She does.

Ali 10:30

She does always.

Nadia 10:32

This book is no different.

Katy 10:34

No.

Nadia 10:36

I always scare people and say there is a political assassination in this book.

Katy 10:40

Fortunate. It's unfortunate.

Nadia 10:42

Really unfortunate what happened. Anyway.

Ali 10:45

We like that Titus had his revelation in Twinkluts Forest. Where everything is brilliant. And why did you decide that Grimwood needed that kind of perfect neighbour?

Nadia 10:57

It just needed that. I just thought it was really funny. Twinkluts we meet in book two. And I just think it just highlights how useless Brimwood is. Because Grimwood is like the animals are chaos, and it just smells a bit funny, and it just never really gets his acther. And that's highlighted when their next door neighbours are Twintlenuts, who are just beautiful, wonderful creatures, civilized, they have a lovely library.

Ali 11:25

Yeah, and I wonder. Yeah, I'm reading too much into this, but I live in Wandsworth. And not too far away is Richmond. Yeah, there you go. I mean, it's perfect.

Nadia 11:35

That's just very much how I feel. As I say, I grew up in a place. I don't want to say the place in case people get upset. It had some stuff to commend it, but nearby was a much posher town, like down the road. It was a much posher town. Still is, and they know it. It just highlights the kind of slight uselessness of Grimwood. But the animals in Groomwood have got pluck and heart. Yeah. So they're not enemies. Twinkluts are not the enemy.

Katy 12:02

They saved one another, didn't they? But so what do you you know, your readers, what do they find funny? What gets that response from them?

Nadia 12:11

It's a mystery to me, and it it's quite good it stays a mystery because when I write, I try and make myself laugh. And I think kids have such an advanced sense of humour, and I think it's underserved sometimes. I think if you get in the mindset of what's funny for kids, I think just get rid of the for kids bit and just go with what's funny. Because what's funny for us is funny for kids. All you've got to do is make sure there's no swearing and there's no stuff that you wouldn't have in a book for kids, age inappropriate stuff. But apart from that, it's funny for all of us, and that's what's been proven when I do interact with kids or I get their feedback. They find the same stuff funny that I do, really. That they like slapstick, they like sarcasm, they like parody, they like all these different types of humour. Really advanced. I think they can tell that as well. I think kids have got such a good monitor for when things have been dialed down for them.

Katy 13:13

Because some of the find that funny. Yeah. Some of your stuff is quite dark. The Pamela unfortunate habit of eating other characters can be quite dark. Just if you've got attached to one of them. Do you ever have any challenge in getting some of that past your editors? Do they go, oh no, that's just too much?

Nadia 13:31

I have to say, not really. There'd been like a couple of things that we've dialed down on. But it's about doing things balancing it. If I always try and balance it with some heart, I'm really invested in the characters in Brimwood and I care about them and I love them. And I think if I didn't, it might just read completely wacky. And just wacky with no heart and no connection to the characters gets old quite quickly. Yeah. It's boring. You're not invested. I really genuinely care about the characters in Brimwood. And so hopefully, alongside darkness and all the rest of it, you can do it if there's also enough love and kind of affection as well to balance. If you play all the keys on the emotional keyboard, then I think it works.

Katy 14:16

Now quite a lot of running jokes as well, which I think works really well with the younger readers. They like that.

Nadia 14:21

I suppose it's in repetitive, maybe, for some people, but it it lets the reader know that we are all in the club together. The kind of Grimwood Club. Because they get that joke. If kids are new to Grimwood, they can pick up any, they don't have to start with book one, but they can pick up any of them. And in every book, put enough there so that if you are completely new to the series, you know where you are and who the characters are.

Katy 14:45

I think when treebonking, isn't it?

Nadia 14:49

Yeah, so tree bonk is Grimwood's sport, national sports.

Katy 14:53

Yeah. And when that comes under threat, you know that there's going to be a real rebellion. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tree bonk is it's a big deal.

Ali 15:01

And you illustrate and write your books. Is there a order that it comes in?

Nadia 15:07

For Grimwood, it's quite straightforward actually, because for Grimwood I sit down and I write it first. It's roughly laid out, and I can spot the beats, and I'll chat with my art director and editor. We go through it together of general agreement about what would be a nice illustration here, or that would be a good joke illustration to have here, and we just go through it that way, make any tweets as need be, and then I just go back and draw away. So it's fun. I basically, when I was a kid, I loved annotating things. So I love getting my parents' newspaper and drawing all over it and adding stupid glasses and whatever. And I've always loved doing that, annotating in a kind of slightly naughty way. So really that's what I do. I get the words that I've written printed out and I just then annotate them. So it's fun for me.

Katy 15:57

We can see when we take the books in to schools that having those illustrations there, your target audience is seven and up, really, isn't it? That having those illustrations there is really important. When you go into schools, are the kids drawn to the drawings as well? What do they talk about? How do they respond to them?

Nadia 16:16

I think so. I would love there to be a lot more flexibility about how much illustration we have in our books. We can be reading picture books all our life. I don't think there needs to be a cutoff age. And similarly, with illustrations, my books, I think even if I was writing for teenagers, I'd be like, why can't we have illustrations? Because it doesn't take anything away. Nothing's been diluted. We're having more input, it's more information. Kids are reading images as well as words. We have visual literacy as well as text-based literacy. It's so valuable to have both. There's a way that children then learn to decipher and decode, and they can take those images and run with them in their mind. And so, yeah, kids, kids love the illustrations and they love copying them and doing their own. What I love is when kids show me their own. I'll do an event and I'll do a draw along, but then when they come and show me, they've just been filling the whole page with doodles anyway, of Grimwood characters, other characters, Grimwood characters interacting with each other, making little comics. I've had kids come up and go, I've written the next book and like putting down little books that they've made which I love. Because I think, yeah, absolutely, this is yours. It gives a sense of ownership. But you get to play with these characters, you get to make your own characters. That's all that this is made writing books and drawing is just playing. Oh, I love it. I love it when they respond to the illustrations.

Katy 17:43

No, they're great. And I think just that being able to I like having a map at the beginning that makes me happy. I think that's always nice to have

Nadia 17:52

it's such a rubbish map, though.

Katy 17:55

I know, but that's partly it, isn't it?

Nadia 17:57

Really chonky. Yeah. Yeah.

Katy 17:59

Slightly chonky map. And then seeing Ted and Nancy from the start, it's nice to get a sense of what they were.

Nadia 18:07

Yeah, they're important characters. Know what they're up to, what they're up to next. Yeah. They are the heartbeat.

Katy 18:14

And the cat?

Nadia 18:14

Princess Buttons in the first book. Princess Buttons,

Katy 18:17

that was that. I like Princess Buttons.

Nadia 18:19

She's the antagonist in the first book. If you're not familiar with the Grimwood series, Ted and Nancy live in the city, they are urban foxes, and they, for complex reasons, have to flee. And they're told about Grimwood, and they're told it's this oh, it's the countryside, it's dead nice and peaceful, you'll be fine. Hide out there. So they go to Grimwood and they find it's far from peaceful. They find it's just chaos. But they both respond to it in a very different way. But Ted and Nancy, who are brother and sister, they're the beating heart of Grimwood. And their emotional journey, their growth. Again, I don't foreground it, but it's in the background, it's the anchor for the chaos that's on the surface.

Katy 18:58

Yeah, they are quite sane, sane by Grimwood standards.

Nadia 19:03

Ish, yeah.

Ali 19:04

Ish. So we were just saying, what's next? There's an another one you're working on.

Nadia 19:10

Yeah, there's another one that I'm working on that I can't say too much about as yet, but it's gonna be fun. It's chaos. And that is, I think it's out in September.

Katy 19:23

What st stage are you at? Do you know the story yet?

Nadia 19:26

Oh yeah, the story's very we're in kind of the editing phase at the moment. So I'll write it, I'll do a first draft, and then it will be looked at, and then I come back to it and make it make more or less sense and add more jokes, and then we I take it to the illustration stage. And there we go.

Katy 19:43

Does Titus get his cake shop?

Nadia 19:46

I can't I can't say any I can't give you any special.

Ali 19:49

Katie's always like this now, do you? I know. She's always you say, I can't tell you, and she's no, but what about this specific detail?

Nadia 19:55

You're gonna have to read.

Katy 19:57

Okay, say not in the next book, but what is Titus's best cake?

Nadia 20:02

Oh, his classic go-to cake is the Victoria sponge.

Ali 20:07

With prize winner.

Nadia 20:10

I think he does a buttercream frosting. I'd tell you what he'd do. He'd probably do a traditional okay, here we go. Traditional Victoria sponge, buttercream in the middle and jam, dusting of ice and sugar on top, but he would also have some like clotted cream on the side to serve.

Ali 20:26

Nice.

Nadia 20:26

Just to have a little extra. He likes a little extra flourish. He does, he likes to look after people. He does, he's very nurturing Titus.

Ali 20:35

A nd what else are you up to as well?

Nadia 20:38

I'm up to all sorts. It's a busy year, it's the National Year of Reading, as I'm sure everyone listening knows. So that's keeping me quite busy. I'm an ambassador for that, and it's actually been really positive so far and really heartening to see. Obviously, people listening, you're already invested, but it's about getting those people invested who aren't. So it's been nice kind of seeing how that's going. It seems to be quite good. Really focusing on joy first. Do you know what I mean? Encouraging reluctant readers to actually just read about what they like, as opposed to it being some kind of chore, some kind of findle wagon homework they have to do. So I like that approach because I think that's much needed. I think aggressively pursuing joy, using what little spare time we all have to lean into the joyful is a good thing. It's a great thing. And a really good thing to share in stories, sharing funny stories is a big part of my belief in getting people who maybe you don't think they're interested in reading into it. So Grimwood, for example, we've got audiobooks read by Adam Buxton. Do you know Adam Buxton? If you don't know him, he's a very funny he is a comedian and also does a podcast. He's one of those people that does lots, and he reads Grimwood, and he does it brilliantly with all the voices. And I've had loads of people say that actually they've On in audio first, and their reluctant reader has loved it, and then they get the book, and it becomes a kind of multidimensional experience. Then they get to see the illustrations, then they also maybe read a bit, and it's snowballed. So that's keeping me busy this year. Is is

Katy 22:16

so what are you doing? Are you going out to schools?

Nadia 22:19

Going out, chatted lots of kind of n places that aren't schools, going into different settings and talking to people there about how to meet people where they are with literacy. I'm also working on a picture book. Ooh. Yeah, because I haven't had because I author illustrate picture books, but I haven't had one out since Jeffrey Dets the Jitters, which was years ago now. Cover. So I'm working on one with Puffin that I think is scheduled to be out next year. I don't think we've announced it. I don't think I'm allowed to tell you. Oh, we're not allowed to say anything. I don't know, because I never know. And I think if it's not been announced, I think I can't. I think they want to do a reveal. So I can't.

Katy 22:58

But it's gonna be fun. What's it like? So the difference between doing a picture book and doing a middle grade, the Grimwood style.

Nadia 23:08

Really, the middle grades feel like frantic. I mean a good way they have to be. It feels like quite a frantic process. The picture book process is actually quite blissful and quite calm. Because once I've got the story mapped out and we've worked out the pagination and how the page turns will look, it's glorious because I just get to sit there and put some music on and kind of illustrate and absorb the story.

Katy 23:37

So you do the picture books the same way that you do the words first and then the

Nadia 23:42

No, it's back to front, it's the other way. It's very image-led. Okay. Because I think the picture books have to be really. So for me, it's about I come up with characters and then I'll be doodling and fill in sketchbooks, and a character might spark a story idea, and then that slowly, like a kind of wonky snowball, it builds and builds. I'll build up that character, that story. Maybe it needs another protagonist, maybe there needs another antagonist whereas it's set. It slowly builds through lots of little thumbnail sketches. I'm the queen of half-finished sketchbooks, I never get through a long one. And then I'll oh, I'll pick up this one, and then I've got a book idea that's spread over six sketchbooks, and then it's a bit of a nightmare. So I'm at the lovely stage of that now, which is characters are down, it's all pretty much laid out, and I'm working on the actual illustrations, which is really nice, really fun.

Katy 24:34

And all the while trying to finish off the last edits for books at Grimwood.

Nadia 24:39

Yeah, so simultaneously. So I have to have different modes in different gears to switch in and out of.

Katy 24:47

That's brilliant. Thank you. So, in terms of the national year of reading, obviously you're doing all your work as an ambassador. What are your hopes for it? What do you think its legacy can be?

Nadia 24:56

I want it to feel positive because those of us who work in this field, there's so much doom and gloom around. It's easy to feel a bit corroded by it. And I really want it to be a joyful, positive thing. And if we can just transmit that joy and happiness and positivity about it, I think that might convert people who are otherwise not involved at the moment. What child is going to be excited by someone saying, Your long-term outcomes will really improve if you sit down and read? It's like me looking at Instagram and someone telling me to eat more protein. I'm like, I know. Whereas if it's actually this is joyful, you can carve out some time for yourself that is indulgent and lovely. And are you obsessed with K-pop demon hunters? Guess what? You can read about them. Like it's fine. And if that can be the legacy that we maybe successfully bring down some barriers, and we can say, it's okay if you are 13 and you wish to read your old Tom Gates books over and over again. That is okay. It is okay if you only want to read comets. Comets are brilliant, and there are so many of them. That is okay. Audiobooks are okay, reading on a Kindle is okay, or an e-reader, or whatever. So that would be great, I think, if it can be a joyful communal bringing down of barriers. And that is how you're gonna get other people to get involved who are not involved with reading, I think. And then all the other stuff can follow. Like, I've definitely had debates with people where they're like, no, it's about the sanctity of the book. And I look, I make picture books. I do not need to be convinced of how precious books are as objects. I make books to be objects, I love them, but we've also got to be realistic about where we are and not closing the door to anyone. Everyone deserves to love stories, everyone deserves literacy. So that means we've got to be prepared to meet everyone where they are on that scale, if that makes sense.

Katy 27:00

Yeah, no, I think the thing about Grimwood and actually all your books that they are contagious because they do have that sense of fun. And when you talk about them, you have that sense of fun. When you're having that fun, then that can be contagious and it stops being do this because it's good for you, it's your vegetables.

Nadia 27:16

And it's like there's room for all sorts of books, but when kids specifically aren't reading, maybe it's just time to embrace lots of different approaches. Also, the National Year of Reading, I should say, it's also not just focused on kids. So many times of parents, and I don't want a parent shame, I am this parent also. Say to me, Oh, I can't get my kid to read. My first question is always, do you read in front of your child? Do you read, or are you always looking at your phone? I am, and I say this as a guilty party. I'm really telling myself when I'm around kids, I must put my phone down and I must try and be aware that I am also modelling my attention span and where my attention's going. That's part of it too. Not to shame anyone, we're all tired.

Katy 28:02

Yeah, no, it's a challenge for all of us.

Nadia 28:04

But it's a nice challenge for us. Why don't I reread Loads of Stephen King? That's what I've just been doing, and I've been really enjoying it. Why don't I have fun with what I'm doing as well? And uh that is contagious, like you say.

Ali 28:15

Yeah, okay. So the final question, what's your favourite Stephen King then?

Nadia 28:20

I just reread three of the biggies. I reread The Stand, Salem's Lot, and It. And of those three, I'm gonna say The Stand was the best. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. The one that I still have nightmares about is Pet Cemetary.

Ali 28:39

Oh, that's good. That's a good one. It's creepy.

Katy 28:42

Very good. So I've lost my tolerance for scary. So I used to read like really scary books and murder, all of that kind of stuff, and I've lost my tolerance for it. I I find that I feel really tense about it. Although I do enjoy a Lee Child, that's my kind of interest.

Nadia 28:57

I find like those, not that I've read a Lee Child, but I find crimy books more scary than the horror. More out there horror, yeah. I don't know why. I think because it feels too rooted in reality. In too much police procedural stuff. Exactly. So I think that's a good thing.

Katy 29:18

I think I like the tidiness of it.

Ali 29:20

I think like historical crime for that. It was a long time ago. Yeah, you're safe now.

Nadia 29:26

Yeah, I can see that. But I mix it up. I did a horror and then I needed a palette cleanser, so I'll do a nice little fluffy rom com. Lovely. Doing some literary fiction. Like there's a whole small disboard out there. So that's been an interesting byproduct of I've got to practice what I preach. I can't be going around going, hey everybody, read more and not read more myself. So yeah, it's great.

Katy 29:48

Thank you very much. That's been brilliant. Thank you. I was thinking, I mean, our kids are too old to it for us to have read this to them, but I was thinking that it was actually a book I would have enjoyed to read out loud to them.

Nadia 30:06

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great book to read out loud. And if you're a teacher listening, it'd be a perfect end to every day.

Katy 30:12

It would. And it was also one of those books where you could have lots of in jokes and all kind of things that you like tree bonking and other such complete silliness.

Ali 30:21

Although you might not want to encourage tree bonking in small children.

Katy 30:25

No, but well, to know, depends how annoying they're being. Sorry. How much energy they needed to run off. I'm sure there is a non-dangerous version of tree bonking that you could play quite productively to make small people run around in small circles.

Ali 30:40

More like tree hugging. Tree hugging, okay. Would be the less violent version.

Katy 30:46

You could do an adaptation of it. Yeah. But there are lots of things which I think you would could probably I I don't know, there are such characters in it that they would become part of your reference point who people might remind you of, or behaviors you might display yourself. Actually, yeah, Pamela probably shouldn't

Ali 31:07

Pamela's behaviour is firmly in her magic tower. Yeah, probably. And Sharon the Party Crow. Ye ah, we all need a Sharon in our lives.

Katy 31:17

We do. Anyway, it's enjoy, it's great fun, and look out for the next instalment coming out in September. Oh, the other thing we should say is that if you go on the Book Clubs and Schools website and you look in our news section in the menu, there is a new newsletter we've been doing, which is for schools to send out to parents or to put up around the school, which has book recommendations in it. And in that, there is a giveaway, and we have five copies of the book, and you can sign up for the giveaway there. Enjoy.