Episode 47 - Home is a Hug with Cindy Hume

Join us as we chat with Cindy Wume, Taiwanese author and illustrator, about her new picture book, Home is a Hug. The book imagines all the different ways in which we can think about home. It has interactive elements with cutouts and flaps and lots of great details to seek out when reading it. 

Find out about her journey from Taiwan to Cambridge, her creative process and discover how her travels and personal stories shape her vibrant illustrations and stories.

We talk about:

• Cindy's background and path to becoming an illustrator
• Inspiration behind "Home is a Hug" and its themes of belonging and emotional connection
• The creative process, including use of materials, digital tools, and interactive design elements like flaps and cutouts
• How travel and cultural experiences influence her artwork
• Favourite picture books growing up, including Where the Wild Things Are and the Japanese series 14 Forest Mice
• Future projects, including her new book about noodles and explorations of feelings and abstract concepts
• Meet her pet cat Bao  

Links to books by or mentioned by Cindy:

• Home is a Hug by Cindy Wume
• The Bookshop Cat by Cindy Wume
• The Gardening Dog by Cindy Wume
• The Bed Book, by Sylvia Plath, illustrated by Cindy Hume
• Where the Wild Things Are by Maurice Sendak
• Miki's First Errand by Yoriko Tsutsui
• A Lion in Paris by Beatrice Alemagna
• Three Happy Lions by Louise Fatio, illustrated by Roger Duvoisin 
• 14 Forest Mice by Kazuo Iwamura

Books reviewed:

Puggle Snuggles by Mo O'Hara, illustrated by Loretta Schauer

Seahorse is Furious by Morag Hood

Other Links:

• Cambridge School of Art
• Natural History Museum London - Giant Squid Exhibit

Connect with Cindy Wume:

• Instagram
• Official Website

Transcript

Katy 0:11

Hi, I'm Katie.

Ali 0:12

Hi, I'm Ali and welcome to Mosty Book Talk.

Katy 0:15

We're delighted to have with us today Cindy Wom, who is a Taiwanese author based in Taiwan. She studied here at the Cambridge School of Art and has a lovely book out called Home is a Hug, which we're going to talk to her about. So we are really pleased to have with us today Cindy Wom, who is a Taiwanese author illustrator. She's based in Taipei and she grew up in a southern Taiwanese city. I'm going to say this wrong, Tainan, is that right? Is that how I say it? Okay. And before coming to the UK in 2014, and she studied the MA in Children's Book Illustration at the Cambridge School of Art. And she works in a mixture of mediums. She has illustrated a number of books, and they include The Best Sound in the World, The Bookshop Cat, The Gardening Dog. So we have cats and dogs. I'm a cat person, Addy's a dog person. And we are talking to her today about her new book, which is called Home Is a Hug. So welcome, Cindy. And do you just want to start by telling us a bit about your background and what brought you to becoming an illustrator?

Cindy 1:29

Thank you. So I grew up in a small town in Taiwan. And when I was a kid, my mom ran a nursery school. So I think I was lucky that I was surrounded by many picture books when I was a kid. And I was super shy. So I enjoy staying alone, drawing and reading. And I think they were my favorite things to do. And they still are now. And when I was in elementary school and middle school, I attend an art program. So it's like the kids attending this program. We would have more art classes than the ordinary program. And I think it was quite fun that we could try printmaking or pottery or watercolor. I didn't know if I want to be an artist when I grew up. So I thought I should try something else. Then after that, I think illustration became only my hobby. It's something I love to do when I have spare time. So when I was thinking about the college, I was quite poor at chemistry and basics. And I love reading literature, then I thought maybe I should find something that I don't need to deal with then anymore. So that's why I studied languages and linguistics when I was in college. But back then I wasn't quite sure what I want to do for the future. So I tried several things, like I took the course as the Department of Industrial Design or Business. But I realized I didn't really enjoy them. And then I looked back on myself and I thought, yeah, illustration was always something I enjoyed the most. And I can never get tired of it. So that's why I thought it would be nice to attend a formal illustration course after graduating from my college. But there wasn't any formal illustration course here. So I found the children's book illustration in Cambridge School of Art. And I think it was the best decision I have ever met, and it's life-changing. Yeah, I think it changed the way how I think about art. I think I was lucky to become an illustrator and vacuum picture book after graduation from the Cambridge School of Art.

Ali 4:03

That's amazing. So that must have been a real change. Because where did you do your foreign language studies? Where did you do linguistics?

Cindy 4:11

Yeah, it's like with their phonetics, uh, phonology. I think it's more about science and was that in in Taiwan.

Ali 4:19

In Taiwan, yeah. So then from Taiwan, you then came to Cambridge. That must have been a big change.

Cindy 4:25

Yeah, I was quite nervous because it's the first time I live abroad by myself. I think the course was amazing, and everyone there, I think, like a very lovely, it was a nice experience.

Ali 4:37

Yeah, and Cambridge is a nice city.

Cindy 4:39

Yeah, I love it.

Katy 4:41

We've met a couple of picture book illustrators who studied there, and everyone says that it's an amazing course, a really interesting course to do if you're gonna do picture book illustration. Yeah. So you're based back in Taipei now, and you've traveled quite a lot. How does that feed into the work that you make, the different places and different cities that you've lived in?

Cindy 5:04

Yeah, so when I was in college, I attended volunteering program in India. And I went there for I think four maybe one, one month. And I think it was death changing too, because I think it's I went there and there were lots of culture shock. This is quite different from where I live. And the program, I think I've met lots of different people from different countries. And I think when I was a little, I thought maybe I just study something in a college and then I will find a job, and that's what life should be. But then I met lots of different people. They are doing lots of different things. Some of them, maybe they were already 30, but they just want the gap year, so they went there. So I thought there's not a certain pace for a person's life. So I think it changed the way I think about my life, and I thought, yeah, I should pursue my dream. So I think that trip inspired me. And when I was in Cambridge, we had lots of spare time. So I traveled to different countries in Europe. And back then we had the habit of doing observational drawing, and I think it really helped build up my voice for working on my artwork. So I think those traveling inspire me for different things in my life.

Katy 6:28

Do you draw when you visit somewhere? Do you take a sketchbook and draw?

Cindy 6:32

Yeah, I always take a sketchbook with me and draw what I see there.

Ali 6:38

I think that then feeds into all of your work that you do, all the different places.

Cindy 6:43

Yeah, I think so.

Ali 6:44

So tell us a little bit about your new book, Home Is a Hug, which starts with the question: what does it take to build a home? So, where did that idea come from?

Cindy 6:56

Back in 2024, I was thinking about making the new book. And I remember that term I wrote, I wanted to make a book that was close to my heart back then in my sketchbook. And then the word home just appeared on my mind because family is always where I find my strengths. And I think home is not just a physical space, it's where our last ones are. And so when I started the idea, I think I thought of these questions. I think it would be a nice start to ask this question, and then I can answer this question with this whole book. And so on the first spread, I try to write down some physical things within maybe a home or house is spade off, and it can show the contrast to the other sprays in the book because home is more about where we feel we belong and or where we can share our feelings with.

Katy 7:59

And you explore the home as so many different things. How did you choose those images? How did you make the choice between all of the things that you put in the book?

Cindy 8:10

Back then I was quite interested in playing with the ship just for my hours. And so in the beginning of making this book, I thought it would be nice to experiment with the shape of the house. And so the hours are created for us. And because I have always loved animals, so I thought it would be nice to include in different animals. And when I thought of home animals, snails and herming crabs and turtles, they just appear on my mind because I think they are funny because we think their homes are part of their bodies, and I think it would be interesting to include it in the book. I think kids might find it interesting, and also I think it's graphically nice things to draw. And the other one I want to talk about is the octopus spread. So the inspiration is actually from uh the videos sent from my husband. So back then he was so obsessed with squid. So he sent the videos about squid to me every day. And he always said, Oh, you should make a book about squid. Squid is not the animals I love the most. I prefer cats more. But when I was looking at the video, I found an interesting fact about Squid is that they can change their appearance based on the environment. And I found it quite interesting because I didn't know about this. And I think it's similar to comedians, like they also change their appearance. So when I was making this book, I thought, yeah, maybe it's time to include these creatures. Because maybe I can never make a book about it. But when I was thinking about if I should include squid or octopus, I feel octopus is more something I love because the head is round. I just love everything of like with this round shape. So then I chose octopus and not a squid. But I think I answered his request for this

Katy 10:22

obscure requests of things to put in your books. I loved all of the different snail houses and all of the different variations on it. The one that I really liked was the double spread, which is made of books, and then there are cats in the books and a little sort of book. Because you say you like cats, is that something that is drawn from your bookshelves or where did that page come from? Because I like that one.

Cindy 10:48

Yeah, I love that one as well. I think because cats and books are two of my favorite things, so I thought it would be nice to combine them together. But when I was making this book, I was thinking about a personal space for children because I think not every kid from a happy family. Maybe when I was making this book, I thought that there are different situations of every family or every queer kiss from.

Ali 11:47

And the book ends with a hug. Why a hug? I think we know, but it'd be nice to hear your view of that.

Cindy 11:54

Oh, so actually in the beginning, my my book is more broad. Like in the beginning, I wanted to talk home is different kind of things. But when I discussed with the publisher, I think they I feel it would be nice to make it more concrete, like everyone can react to. So actually, this idea is suggested by them. And because they feel they read my text, they feel there's a hug. And then I thought, yeah, that's nice one. And that's also how I always feel like home's a place that rebels off. And in my family, I love hugging my parents, even when and growing up, I still love hugging. So I thought it would be nice to include these feelings in this book. That's nice.

Katy 12:46

It feels like a really nice ending. There are so many details to spot on every page in the book, and there are flaps and there are cutouts so you can peek through the pages, which I think we were thinking would make it really fun to read with a child. Did you think about how the book would be read when you were writing it? And how do you think a child will would read it?

Cindy 13:07

Yes, actually, the flaps and that cost ideas were suggested from a publisher as well. Like they say, they feel this book can have more interaction with these flaps and diecast ideas. I thought it's a nice challenge for me because I never tried before. I developed my ideas from my sketchbook first. And then I met these little dummies to see what ideas might become. Because I think it's really hard to just think in your mind, because with die cut I think it's you have to make it. That's so lovely.

Katy 13:44

So given this as a podcast, Cindy is showing us a very small, it's probably like hand size, isn't it? Book that's a mock-up of her book that's got testings of where the die cuts might go and the flaps.

Ali 13:58

We'll try and do a screenshot of it. That would be lovely to take a picture of you with the book that we can use on social media because it's just it's so cute.

Katy 14:06

That's so lovely. So that changed how you worked. That was a different way of working then.

Cindy 14:12

Yeah, I think it definitely changed, and I found I really enjoy it because I think it's a different way of thinking, but I think I just love it so much. So I feel very grateful they suggested to me, and that creates more rooms for the kids to play with the concept. And so I would like to talk about two spreads I love the most. Um one is the apple spread, and there's a big apple, and it's a home for caterpillars. So in the beginning, I only drew this big apple and a caterpillar, and then when we were thinking about the first idea, we think, yeah, it would be nice to show the kids what's really inside the apple. I think it's actually a very big home because even Apple for us is small, but it's quite big for the caterpillar. And there, I think it's a luxury home because it has so many rooms. And I just enjoy and design every detail like the sofa that matches with his body. And I think when kids leave the flavor, they will feel, wow, there's so many things to spot. And I just feel they will enjoy it a little bit more, and they can stay on one spread for more time. I think that it would be lucky. And the other one I quite enjoy was a spread that with the text that home can be full of different opinions. Yes. And yeah. So when I was thinking about, I think about the emotions, like even when we are adults or kids, we do have lots of emotions. But home is where we can share our feelings, and sometimes even when we are angry with each other, by the end of the day, we can still come back together. So I thought it would be nice to use the flap to describe the emotions. And if I imagine if a parent or mom or dad are reading this book to the kids, they can play with the flaps. And we can see sometimes we are angry at each other, but if I were a mom, I would tell the kids, but I won't be angry at you for very long. I will just smile to you. You can smile to me as well. And then I think it would be lovely to play with it and we can share the feelings with kids. I just think they will love it. And I do think with this kind of design, the reading experience is more engaging and interactive.

Katy 16:52

It's great. There are lots of moments because I thought about it, what it would be like reading it to a child, and I could see there were just so many things that you could go back to or look forward to spotting the next time that you read it, because there is there's so many little details in it. It's lovely.

Ali 17:08

And so it's perfect for children navigating change. Were you thinking about that kind of idea of children moving home or changing family situation at all when you were writing it?

Cindy 17:20

Yeah. So when I was developing the concept of home, I thought of the word homeless. Yeah. So then I thought, yeah, I want to develop this concept, but I hope it's more in an oblivious way. So that's why I developed the page with an umbrella home. There's a girl, she is holding umbrella and it creates a home in outdoor. That's how I respond to the concept of homeless. And also I when I was thinking about late page, I thought maybe some kids they may experience domestic violence. Like not every family is a happy place, but I just want the kids who experiencing difficult situations. They will feel out there, there will be still maybe someone is there to tech you, maybe a friend or someone you meet in your life, or yeah, and even a pet will feel you are accepted. And so let's connect to the next spray that's a kid's reading. It's a personal space. So that's how I respond to this kind of difficult situation in this book.

Katy 18:39

So you work with a whole range of materials and also digitally, from what I can see in on your website. Can you describe a typical day when you're in your studio working on a book? Do you write the text and draw at the same time or which one comes first? And how do you put them together?

Cindy 18:57

Yeah, so I think it depends on the stage of making a book. So if it's an early stage, I'm still developing the ideas in a sketchbook. I just love lying on the sofa because creative space. Yeah, I feel like ideas would naturally come up when we feel more relaxed. But actually, sometimes I would just fall asleep. But when I wake up, I would just write down the ideas I have already thought of in case I forgot. But I just love it. I feel it's every time I lie on my sofa, more ideas come. But so after that stage, if I move on to during the hours, I would just sit in front of my desk to draw everything. And because for picture book, I still love to draw with hands. If it's digital is more for some commercial project, I would just draw a whole day. And my cat, she also she would just accompany with me. She has a window cat bed. Maybe I can show you. I can say that's cool. So she's there now.

Katy 20:09

She's very well, very well behaved, better behaved than my cats. I can say they come and stick their faces.

Cindy 20:15

Yeah, but sometimes she will just jump to my table and she would just sit on the paper and working on. So if the watercolor is still wet, I have to just stop her from stepping on it. I know I see that behavior is a signal of reminding me to take a break.

Katy 20:35

Fair enough. And so what's your favorite medium to work in in terms of drawing?

Cindy 20:42

I think I love watercolor and colour pencils. And I want to show you like for this book, I work on this. It's a Japanese watercolor. I found in an asked price and acquired.

Ali 20:54

So that literally became your colour palette because you've got every colour on that. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Katy 21:00

And then you put them in digitally. Do you carry on working on them digitally, or do you just scan them and you're finished when you've done them by hand?

Cindy 21:08

I finished it in one piece and something that this was some edits in Photoshop if we have to change some minor things.

Katy 21:17

That feels quite unusual now just to scan the whole page in, because quite a lot of people seem to scan it in and then they work into it. Yeah, I heard about it.

Cindy 21:26

Yeah, yeah. And more traditional way of working.

Ali 21:29

And you've worked as an illustrator on other people's texts. We love the bed book, the Sylvia Plath story. What's different when you write your own story?

Cindy 21:39

Yeah, so I think it's quite different if it's my own story. I think the ideas were based on my personal life experience or my own imagination. And I think the good side of it is I can think about the words and image together from the very beginning, but if it's other people. Text, I think it's like stepping into someone else's mind. I think sometimes I encounter a story that I can never think of and it's not quite a withdrawal, but I say I think it's more like a challenge for me and stepping out my comfort zone. So I think I quite enjoy it as well. And I think for the bad book you mentioned, I think it inspired me a little bit. Like you can make a book with the same things because the whole book is about bad. I think it also inspired me for making a book of home. That's what I never think about before.

Katy 22:40

No, it's interesting because so I I am very old and I have the original copy of the bed book, the one that was originally published with I can't actually remember who illustrated it. And so it was just really interesting that they are really different and that a different illustrator can make the book very different. Did you look at the original at all or did have you not seen it? I don't have the original version. Okay. It was done in the 1970s and it's very different, but I really loved your edition of it. It was very nice. Looked at some of your other interviews. That Where the Wild Things Are was one of your favorite picture books growing up. Tell us a bit about that. And are there other picture books that you loved as a child or that you love now? I have it here.

Cindy 23:27

It's a Chinese edition. Oh, okay. I remember when I was little, I remember I'd read it several times. And I think the reason why I didn't know why I love it, but when I grew up, I looked back. I think the reason why I love it is it starts from the real life. And when I was a kid, I did believe it's true that there's a different word for monster. Because it starts with the rune, and I don't know, for me it was quite convincing when I was little. And maybe every kid has a dream of being wild. So I think maybe that's why I love it. Like the in-between of imagination and real life. And the other picture books I love most were Japanese picture books. And there's one, it's a series of 14 mice, and there are lots of books about those 14 mice, and they live in the forest. So the story is actually about the ordinary life about them. And I think I love it because there are so many details in the illustration. So every time I read it, I think I found something new. What's it called? Is it 14 mice? 14 mice.

Katy 24:49

Is it translated into English, do you know, or is it I don't think so?

Cindy 24:54

I'm not sure. Interesting. I quite enjoy it because in every book about them, there are 14 of them doing things together. I don't know how it when I was a kid, I just love it. And the other one is also a Japanese picture book. I think maybe it was once translated to English. I don't know. I look at it and it's called Mikki's First Errands. So the story is about a girl, she's called Mickey, and she was running an errand for her mom. And it's the first time she ran the errands, and she was so shy in the beginning, she didn't even dare to talk to the shopkeeper. And I think I love it because I was the same when I was little. When my mom took me to the doctor, I never dared to talk to the doctor, so my mom had to talk to the doctor for me. And so I think maybe that's why I love the story a lot, because I think maybe I feel myself is quite similar as the main character. And another one I love is Strega Nona. Strega Nona. I think it's a story about a witch, and there are lots of noodles popping off in the whole tongue. Yeah, I think it's it was an old book as well. And I think it was quite magical and interesting, so that's why I love it a lot. And now my favorite picture book artist is Beatrice. Beatrice, you say that Alemana. Yeah, and I love her book. My favorite one is A Lion in Paris. It's about a lion who's looking for a job. And in the end, he found a job in Paris, and I love that book. And the other one I love is one is called Three Happy Lions. I don't know if you know this book. Three happy lines. Yeah, and also this one, Veronica, I think. Nice, they're really lovely. Yeah, I it's not contemporary, it's an old one. But I didn't know about and when I was a kid. I think we didn't have the Chinese version back then. So I learned about this also when I was studying in Cambridge, and I fell in love with his artworks and stories.

Katy 27:25

Are there any Taiwanese picture books that you think people in the UK should know about? Because I don't know how much many actually make it here. We're not very good at international children's picture books in particular, uh, children's books at all, really. And are Taiwanese children's books quite different from English ones?

Cindy 27:45

I think maybe when I was a kid, I think it's quite different because there are lots of picture books about our culture. I remember there was a story about Hmong cooking the bean. It's a food that beans for a kid. I love it a lot because in that story, Mmong used a bean to make ice cream and soup or everything. When I was reading it, I thought, wow, it's so amazing. So I remember I read that story and told my mom I want to make the bean into an ice cream, and we made it together. So I think that's also one of my favorite ones when I was little, the Taiwanese story. Yeah. But I think for now, there are some picture books about Taiwanese culture, but I think nowadays we explore more universal things. So they are different, but it's hard for me now to really describe the differences.

Katy 28:45

I always like going in, if when I'm traveling, I always, even though I can't understand the language, just looking at what children's books, particularly picture books, are in another country, it always strikes me that some other countries are really much more adventurous in what they have in their children's books and their picture books. And even without understanding the words, you can just see that there are some really very different styles and approaches. And I think that's always interesting just to see.

Ali 29:14

Do you notice the difference like when things are published in the different languages? So is home is a is there a Chinese version of it?

Cindy 29:23

Yeah, it has already sold the Chinese version. And the publisher asked me to translate the book. Yeah, so it will publish in August, I think. Oh wow. Yeah. And I think every time when I make a book, I don't know if it will be translated to into different languages. But when I make a book, I think I personally love to make a book that can be understood by people from different cultural backgrounds. I love exploring more universal things. And I think home is a hug is universal things because everyone in the world has a home. But and also when I met it, I hope it's more open in general. But I didn't plan to do it for the translation. That's how I really love to work on my illustration. I think I prefer to work on my illustration with within my imaginations and yeah, and also something that everyone can understand. Okay.

Katy 30:30

And so most of our listeners are teachers or librarians and some parents that if you could tell them something about sharing your book with the idea of reading it out loud, what would you say? Is there some particular way that you imagine home as a hug being read out loud to the two children?

Cindy 30:49

Yeah, I think if we read a book, I think that every time when I go to a library to read to the kids here, I would ask them to find the details in a book. So when I open the book, and even there's no text, I would ask them to find something, maybe find a bird or find the cats. Like we can look at it in a striction together. But sometimes I think kids are so good at it. If you just ask them to find something, they will find more for illustration. I think that it's also like this when we say, oh, home can be so big, we can ask the kids to leave the fab, and maybe they can share fantasy in the illustration. I think it would be lovely to interact with this way that we read the text and ask them to find the details in it. Yeah, I think that's what I imagine it would be nice. And maybe when we read till the end and when we say, because home is a hug, I think I would ask the kids to hack each other to show and then to feel the hug and that in this book that we beware hug by a home. Yeah. I think this one I imagine it would be.

Katy 32:03

Love the way the home opens out there, the arms of the home in that picture in the flaps. It's really lovely.

Cindy 32:10

What's next? What are you working on? Yeah, so I just finished in the book about no. And it's not my text, it's from other author's text, and I quite love it because it's also related to my culture. And the main character is a Chinese character. So yeah, there were lots of noon do I drew in this book. And I think it was quite fun. Yeah. Did it make you hungry? Yeah, a little bit because there are all kinds of no those in the book. Yeah, but it was nice to work on it. And I think it's also a story maybe I can never think of because what I said, I love exploring more general or universal things, but that one is quite culture-based. And I think they asked me to draw one of the reasons is also my culture background because the character is trying. Maybe they think I can understand a little bit more about this culture. But I think it was a fun project to work with. And for now, I love explored the ideas about feelings and some abstract things. And I really enjoyed seeing how they can be both real and metaphorical. I think I would just keep playing with this kind of concepts and see what it will become.

Katy 33:35

So that's what you're working on in terms of the book that you write and draw next one. Interesting. Okay, we will look out for that.

Ali 33:44

And finally, where's home or where does home feel for you? .

Cindy 33:48

Okay. So I want to talk about my cats. So I have always dreamed of having a pet when I was a kid, but my parents didn't want to. So I think this is one of the good things being a grown-up. There are not many, but this is one thing that you have the freedom to decide if you want a pet. So my cat, she's called Bao, and it's kind of Chinese food because we think her head is round. It's just like that food. And so she was a stray cat, and she was rescued by a caretaker because she was pregnant. She gave birth to five kittens, and they were all adopted except her. So I saw an online post about her, and I saw her picture, and I think I just fell in love with her because she's so cute. So we went to see her, and I remember she was also very shy. So my husband thought she's very shy, and for him, he thinks it's perfect because he doesn't want the cats that it's wild. But I didn't think about it that much. After Bao came to our place, I think she became a different cat. She's quite talkative, she loves to meow every day. Yeah. But we really love her, and I'm so happy she became part of our family, and I think it makes my home complete with her. She's actually the one I spend more time with. I think we spend 24 hours together every day because when I'm working, she sleeps beside me, and we sleep together at night. So she's quite important to me. And I just love being with her, and that's how I feel my ideal home is.

Katy 35:45

Home is where the cat is. Yeah. Ali won't appreciate that. I definitely do. I've got a very large I show you my very large fluffy one who's sleeping. Can you see him?

unknown 35:55

So cute.

Katy 35:56

Massive very big and fluffy. He did treat me to a three o'clock. I need a full love. I'm going to lie on top of you. And this was in like yesterday in the morning, and I'm going to wake you up and you have to cuddle me at three o'clock in the morning, which he is very big for that to happen to you.

Ali 36:17

I was just thinking, Cindy, you don't have any pet squids in your house.

Cindy 36:22

Yeah, yeah. I think it's not something we can have at home, I think. But I gave him a gift, pet squid, but they made it in a jar. Like oh, a specimen. So yes, yes, specimen. I I gave him as a gift. And he loved it so much. Yeah. So maybe there's a our pet squid in our home.

Ali 36:43

If you come, Cindy, if you come to we'll say goodbye, but just for your husband, if you come to London, in the Natural History Museum in London, in the basement, there's a secret tour you can do. And in the basement, they have a giant squid laid out that you can see.

Cindy 37:02

Really?

Ali 37:02

But it's not on it's not on display, but you can do a special tour to see it. And it's like 10 feet long. It's in a case. So if you come to London, you must take him to see it.

Cindy 37:14

Yeah, I will note it.

Katy 37:15

That's brilliant. It's been really nice talking to you. And we love the book. Is it coming out in any other languages? So it's in Chinese and it's in English. Is it being published anywhere else?

Cindy 37:25

Yeah, uh the publishers say it was sold to France and Portugal and Spain. Okay. And in Spain, there's another language Catalan. Catalan. Excellent.

Katy 37:40

So coming out all around the world. Brilliant. Thank you very much for spending the time with us from the other side of the world. And it's been really interesting talking to you. I did like that book. And it's just a it is a it's a hug of a book.

Ali 37:59

It's a hug of a book. I bought it for some people who are moving uh moving to they're moving to Nairobi, actually. And I bought it for them to take with them because I thought their kids would enjoy it. Because there's lots of little things to read, but the main message is that kind of you take your home with you, with the people that you're with. So I thought they might enjoy that.

Katy 38:19

It's really sweet. No, and it goes actually quite nicely with her book that was the reinterpretation of Sylvia's Plath's bed book. So you have your home and you have your bed. And your bed can be lots of different things and take you lots of places. And that is a lovely book, too. So seek that out. And we have a couple of other picture books to highlight just before you disappear. First up is Puggle Snuggles. I'm going first.

Ali 38:47

Oh, okay. Feel free. Well, my book's perfect because Seahorse is furious. So you go first.

Katy 38:54

I'm going to go first, and then you can be furious. Mine is a gentle read. So first up is Puggle Snuggle, which is by Mo O'Hara, illustrated by Loretta Shawa. And it is all about a series of animals and what they like doing during the day. So when the morning sun rose, hens chicks did magic tricks, and horses' foal scored a goal. Goat's kid tried out a skid, but platypuses puggle just wanted a snuggle. Oh. And platypuses puggle. And I didn't know that baby platypuses, this is so hard to say. I didn't know that baby platypuses were called puggles.

Ali 39:33

I didn't know that either.

Katy 39:35

That's so sweet. It is sweet. And he just wanted a snuggle. And I quite like if you found out that platypuses were called puggles, you'd want to rhyme it with snuggle. So that will make sense. And I also didn't know that platypuses were nocturnal. And so through the day, all the puggle wants to do is snuggle. But come the night. Yeah.

Ali 39:56

So he they wouldn't make good pets.

Katy 39:59

No. The moon rose and the animals curled up to sleep, but then platypus's puggle just wanted to party in the night time. Sorry if I've just shocked someone awake. But it is charity in the book as well. So yeah, it's a fun book about what different animals do at different times of the day. You learn lots about what baby animals are called, including that patchpuses are puggles.

Ali 40:30

Very nice.

Katy 40:31

And of course it ends up with dawn breaking and then all that puggle wants to do again. It's not nice.

Ali 40:39

So it's like upside down. Yeah.

Katy 40:42

And that is out now, and it is published by Happy Yak. It's got very sweet illustrations. So there you go. What's your turn now? If you're still furious.

Ali 40:53

I'm furious. And seahorse is furious. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Katy 40:58

Okay.

Ali 40:58

And who's who is this by before you said by Morag Hood, who gave us Brenda is a Sheep.

Katy 41:04

Oh, yes, a very good book.

Ali 41:06

One of my favourite books. And so basically the whole story is effectively everybody trying to help Seahorse have a much better day. But his breakfast is wet, his tail is wet, his eyes are wet. Everything is wet. He woke up, he basically woke up wrong.

Katy 41:28

He woke up wrong.

Ali 41:29

We know that feeling, don't we? He snubbed his tail. The seaweeds are being ridiculous. And there's a really sweet octopus that's trying to help. And says things like, which you just can imagine the little toddler. So whatever you do, don't ask me if he's hungry. Oh doesn't want your silly snacks. Fair enough. He's got a brilliant grumpy face. Yeah. He wouldn't like that at all. He wouldn't like anything. He doesn't want Bunny to cuddle, but he does really. And eventually. Eventually, Seahorse stops being furious and calms down with the help of his friends and Bunny. But it's just a perfect kind of exactly how toddlers are that there's whatever you offer and whatever you do, even their most favourite thing, it's utterly pointless.

Katy 42:23

You can't get it right. And it is a it's an example of how eyebrows can really tell a story, aren't they? Because his eyebrows are extremely expressive throughout.

Ali 42:35

Very angry. And it's perfect. So Seahorse is furious, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Katy 42:42

Fair enough. Okay, so two, three, three picture books to look out for there. We're having a bit of a binge on picture books, aren't we? Yeah.

Ali 42:49

Okay.

Katy 42:50

Brilliant. All right, enjoy.