Episode 50 - The Carnegie Medal for Illustration Shortlist

Following on from episode 48 when we went through the Carnegie Medal for Writing shortlist together with expert Carnegie followers Alison Jewitt and Amy McKay, in this episode we go through the Carnegie Medal for Illustration shortlist and make some more ill fated predictions for the winners.

Alison Jewitt is an English teacher at the London Nautical City of London Academy has led a Carnegie shadowing group in her school for many years and this is her third year helping us review the list.

Amy McKay is the librarian at Ullswater Community College, Penrith. She leads Carnegie shadowing at her school and has a long history with the Carnegies, having been the awards co-ordinator for the Carnegies which included overseeing the National shadowing scheme.

The full Carnegie Medal for Illustration Shortlist is:

The Playdate illustrated by Clara Dackenberg, written by Uje Brandelius, translated by Nichola Smalley (Lantana)
The Endless Sea illustrated by Linh Dao, written by Chi Thai (Walker)
Lord of the Flies: The Graphic Novel illustrated & adapted by Aimée de Jongh, written by William Golding (Faber & Faber)
The Sleeper Train illustrated by Baljinder Kaur, written by Mick Jackson (Walker)
Wildful illustrated and written by Kengo Kurimoto (Pushkin Children’s Books)
Freedom Braids illustrated by Oboh Moses, written by Monique Duncan (Lantana)
The Paper Bridge illustrated by Seng Soun Ratanavanh, written by Joelle Veyrenc, translated by Katy Lockwood-Holmes (Floris Books)
Wiggling Words illustrated and written by Kate Rolfe (Two Hoots)

All the information about the Carnegies and the Shadowing Resources can be found on their website here.

Transcript

Ali 0:11

Hi, I'm Ali.

Katy 0:12

Hi, I'm Katy, and welcome to Mostly Book Talk.

Ali 0:15

In this episode, we're joined by Alison Jewitt from the London Nautical City of London Academy and Amy McKay from Ullswater Community College to talk through the Carnegie Medal for Illustration shortlist.

Katy 0:27

We haven't done the Illustration Shortlist before, and I think we really enjoyed going through the picture books and hearing the responses from older children who have been part of the Carnegie Shadowing Scheme. So we hope you enjoy it.

Katy 0:44

So welcome. We have Alison Jewitt with us today from the London Nautical City of London Academy. And she's English teacher there and head of PHSE and leads on shadowing for the Carnegie's. And we also have Amy McKay, who is from Ullswater Community College and is the librarian there, and similarly has been leading on all of the Carnegie shadowing in her school. So welcome. Hi. Nice to have you with us. And we are going to look at the Carnegie Medal for Illustration shortlist. And we haven't done this before, but we were made aware that quite a lot of schools were using the illustrated book, not just in primary, but also in secondary. And so both Alison and Amy can talk to us about what their shadow has thought of the illustrated books as well. So these are older, obviously secondary children reading them. And we thought we'd have a look and talk through them. So we're going to go through in alphabetical order by Illustrator and start with the play date. The illustrator for that is Clara Dackenberg, and it is written by Uje Brandelius, and it is about a young girl who is very excited to visit her friend Henry at his house. And the text follows her experience of the play date and see them playing nice together. But it's very clear from the pictures and some of the text that her mother is not there as a guest, but as the cleaner. And it's the kind of parallel stories of how they experience that day. I don't worry so much about pitch books in terms of spoilers, but I won't spoil the ending. And what do people think of that?

Ali 2:22

I was just going to say before we dive in that it's a Swedish book originally, and it's translated by Nicholas Smalley.

Katy 2:28

It does have a slightly non-British feel to it, doesn't it? In terms of the illustrations, and because the front cover end papers have the little girl's house and her neighbourhood, which is quite multi-story tower blocks and graffiti and looks quite run down in some ways. Less green, it's more urban. And then the end papers have his house, Henry's house, which is a bigger house, it's got more trees. It looks it clearly looks smarter. There's that difference there in those papers, but they don't look that English in there. Do you think? Am I or do you think they could be anywhere?

Amy 3:08

No, I think you're right. I think the Swedishness of it really comes across.

Katy 3:11

And there's that poster, isn't there? There's a poster with writing on it.

Ali 3:16

In the posh house.

Katy 3:17

In the posh house, yeah. So what did your shadowers think of this one?

Alison 3:22

I did the illustration once with three different groups. I did it with the main shadowing group. I also did it with my year seven set three class and with my year eight literacy intervention group as well. So we've got a range of views. They liked this one. They liked the story. They liked that the girl is honest. That's no spoilers. But the linked to a spoiler, the girl is honest, which they thought was a really important message for younger children. What was really interesting was that I had to direct them, with all of them, really direct them to look at the illustrations because they tried to rush through them. But with this one particularly, none of the kids, so from the year sevens through to the year the older year nines who do the shadowing, none of them noticed that the mum was the cleaner.

Ali 4:07

Wow.

Alison 4:08

So I do wonder about that. It's interesting that no one noticed it.

Ali 4:12

Did they think it was odd that on a play date they weren't eating together? Did anyone pick up on that?

Alison 4:17

They didn't even notice it. I like when that when they went back and I said, but they just thought, oh, she doesn't like that food.

Katy 4:24

Gosh, that's really interesting. Amy, did your shadowers pick up on the difference?

Amy 4:28

Yeah, they did really quite quickly. But we've been shadowing the illustration medal for a long time. And I use picture books an awful lot in different sessions with different groups. So it could be that they're more used to visual literacy and looking at that as well as the text. They were really vocal about this one. I think it's quite an unsettling read. And yeah, they all found it a very uncomfortable read, which I think is fantastic if a book can bring those emotions out in you. So we tracked the differences. We did a group read. We read it through first and then we read it through again, and we tracked all the differences and all the different clues that we could identify about what was going on. They really seemed to enjoy that, and they enjoyed pointing out all these different things that hint at the socio-economic divide. It was a really great book for discussion. They particularly you mentioned the end papers. They all one girl really liked the end papers, has got a thing about end papers anyway. So likes them when they tell you something about the story and they bookend it. And then they got quite philosophical at the end. So without any spoilers about the mum's reaction or lack of reaction right towards the end, that generated quite a lot of opinions, as only teenagers can give opinions. So it was a really fun session on this book.

Katy 5:45

Interesting. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that we really thought was that there was so much to look at in the pictures. Yeah. And that the story was being told through the pictures as much. It was one of those books where the pictures really carried the story. There's all the signifiers of wealth, but also you can't have a feeling that the poster is a real kind of signal of being quite liberal and aware and politically active and conscious, and yet probably not that aware of that relationship or that dynamic that's going on in the book between the class divisions that are there. It's interesting, isn't it?

Ali 6:22

It's hard to talk about it without a little bit of spoiling. But I suppose there could have been a conversation, couldn't there, between the little girl and her mum before they left? And she would have probably been able to just have that thing. But I think her mum was too proud to ask. But at no point was that bag of toys offered to them as a gift. So you could wonder where those toys were going. Were they going to the charity shop or were they just in a bag because he had so many toys they just card you'd up? But you think if the little girl had asked for the toy, she probably could have had the toy.

Alison 6:56

Yeah. With that bit, the thing that was interesting with my class was all of the year sevens and eights, they were all impressed with her honesty that she admitted that she'd taken something she shouldn't have, and that her mum was really understanding and everything. But once I'd pointed out to them that the mum was an employee, then they became really worried about her taking the thing. Then it became about is mum gonna lose her job? Is this like this is actually really bad? This isn't like, oh, she's a really she's really honest and like she's just been silly. This is now like she's put her mum's job at risk and is quite serious. There was an interesting change in their attitude once they realised.

Katy 7:35

Yeah. We probably should just say, shouldn't we, rather than skirting around. So so in the process of being in the house, the little girl discovers a room which has bags of things which look like they're probably maybe put aside to go to charity or just as Ali said, surplus, but she takes a robot that she has been looking at and wanting and takes it home with her.

Amy 7:57

And it's a robot that she's been covered in earlier in the

Ali 8:00

Yeah, she sees it on the way in, doesn't she, at the toy shop?

Katy 8:03

I think that is interesting. It's like the perspective that you read it from, and that if it were if they were friends and she'd taken it home, it wasn't such a big thing. But because of that dynamic of that power relationship that's going on there, it does become that much more. There are all those questions. What is her mum gonna do? Is she gonna go back and is she gonna just quietly replace it because she knows that they won't have noticed it's missing? Or is she gonna say something when she brings it back? What did your kids think, Amy?

Amy 8:32

They were quite funny, really. A few of them just thought that they should keep the robots and just be done with it and she'll get better use of it and all of that. We had big discussions. Some of them really, you know, stealing's wrong, you shouldn't do it. The mum, they felt that the mum maybe didn't react quite as harshly as they don't wanted her to, whereas others were much more laid back and thought, ah, just keep you've got it now, I might as well keep it. You got away with it. I did like the style of the illustrations.

Katy 8:57

They're not sparse because they've got quite a lot of detail in them, but they're just simple, quite as simple colour ways. And what do you think? Anyone else want to say anything about the art itself?

Amy 9:08

Yeah, I think the illustrations, they are deeply unsettling, or for me they were anyway. The scale that she uses, the use of scale, particularly for the people. Looking through it now, it always feels a little bit odd. And the boy's got his head in a certain angle. This it's a bit of mixed media, it looks like she's used collage. I found the style of the illustrations really for me reflected back the subject of the book and that unsettling, like something's not quite right here, feel to it. I agree. There's two stories happening, isn't there? There's a kind of surface level popping over to see your friend, and then what's actually happening. Yeah. I think it's very nicely told, and the illustrations do work, do a really good job, I think.

Katy 9:52

Yeah, it's the where the eyes are looking.

Alison 9:54

The illustrations tell the story more so than the words do. So I think that if we're talking about prizes for illustration or awarding illustration, I think the illustration here actually plays a really important role in the storytelling. It's not just illustrative.

Katy 10:09

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Ali 10:10

So the next book is The Endless Sea, illustrated by Linh Dao and written by Chi Thai. And that's a Walker Studio book. And it's an autographical picture book telling the true story of Chi Thai's family fleeing Vietnam by boat when she was three or four years old, told from her perspective. Amy, do you want to start with what your shadow is made of this one?

Amy 10:31

Yeah, this is one of our favourites by far of everything about it. They were really impressed with. Talking about the illustration, there's quite a lot of silhouetting used in the book, and that adds such an ominous feel. So before we even know what's happening, we know something bad. There's a tension building, and I think that and the use of dark colours, yeah. My students really enjoyed the build-up of that. And then when they're on the sea, there's so much movement in that illustration, you can almost feel the wind whipping at your face and the rain and the spray. It's such a powerful book, this one. Um, as well, probably more about the text than it is the illustrations, but all together, the fact that it tells a story that we don't necessarily know a lot about. They certainly don't cover Vietnam in the curriculum at my school. And even if they did, I don't think we would be covering post-war Vietnam and the plight of the people then. And I think it was fantastic for starting that conversation about hidden histories as well. And of course, just the need to be empathetic and show compassion and a little bit of understanding.

Katy 11:36

Yeah, and it's also a refugee story that says that actually we've had refugees, it's not a recent phenomenon. It should not be seen as something that is merely happening now, it's been happening for many decades. Yeah. Alison, how did your shadowers react?

Alison 11:54

They they found this one tricky because obviously, when we first started talking about the prize for illustration, and I took out the books, and a lot of them look like they're for much younger children. And because I was doing it with literacy intervention groups or lower set in year seven, they were worried that I was giving them books like baby books, like that was all they could do. And this one was an interesting one for them because it was the first one out of the group that they looked at that they felt actually wasn't for babies, even though their first look at it made them think it was. They also didn't realise until right at the end when she writes that it's autobiographical. They didn't notice that obviously throughout, but they also didn't think it was set at another time. They thought it was now, so that was really interesting. Like you're saying that it's a sort of a timeless story. They thought it was now, that this is what happens now, anyway. So they recognized that as a kind of human story, and so then that part where they found out it was autobiographical was really interesting to them. Interesting that it's a story from all time, but also interesting that someone who's had that experience also is writing such an interesting book to them.

Katy 13:04

Yeah, I think it is an interesting perspective. I was saying to Ali when we were talking about it, I lived in Singapore in the late 70s and remember the Vietnamese refugee camps and them arriving and that whole sense at the time of it being such a major movement of people. And then when she talks at the end in terms of the context of the number of refugees that there were then and the number of refugees that there are now, I thought it was interesting in terms of putting it in that context. I love the drawings, I like the way in which she used the sort of almost the photo album vignettes as well. I thought that worked really nicely. And as you say, the contrast between the darkness of the journey and the lightness at the end.

Ali 13:48

And the dream sequence is beautiful but incredibly haunting. So I think the illustrations do a really good job in this one as well, of telling the story and the feel, as you said, Amy, the kind of feeling of the being in the sea and the feeling on that journey. I think we read in the autobiography at the end that there might be another book to tell the next bit of the story. Because if the boat journey is very long, and then there's they're in the UK, and I'm sure everything wasn't fine, but tick. So it'd be nice to know what the rest of that journey from rescue to now or from rescue to you getting school would be like as well. I got that sense as well. It leaves you wanting more, this book. Even after you close, I think it's one. I know certainly for me, it's one that's carried on living in my head, and I want to know more from her, really.

Katy 14:38

There is that page where there's the series of vignettes where they go from having been rescued to being in their new home, and there is that just sense that's skipped over in a very few pages, and there probably is a whole, as Ali said, a whole story there. And again, the end papers are great in this book because it starts off with the life before, doesn't it? And then in the front cover and in the back, it's their new life, and I think that they're really lovely too. So we go on to the next one, which is Lord of the Flies, the graphic novel, which is illustrated by Amee De Jongh, and she illustrated it and adapted it, obviously, from the original text by William Golding, and that's Faber and Faber. And probably don't need to summarize the story for anyone. I think it's fair to say that it's a fairly faithful retelling of the book. Alison, you start. What did your shadowers think of this one? They love this one.

Alison 15:37

This is super popular. Loads of the boys, because I teach it at a boys school, loads of the boys want to take it. They really liked it. I had a boy coming back at lunchtime to carry on reading it. I had a year 11 try and take it. So yeah, they really like this one. And when I ask them which one they think should win, this did get a kind of majority opinion for this one. I think that's because, though, for them, for secondary anyway, that the graphic novel style and layout is familiar to them and they they're not thinking this is baby-ish, right? This is definitely not baby-ish. They were shocked by some of it because it is a true telling of the story, so it has all the horrible bits there as well. It's quite graphic in that sense, and I think probably why they liked it too. I think that because this one feels less baby-ish to them, and because the the format is more familiar to them, I think that's why they really like this one. I personally hate Lord of the Flies. Um, really hate it. So I didn't read this because I'd I can't stand that story. I just looked at some of the illustrations, and the illustrations are lovely, and it's definitely very much in that style that the boys are really into just now.

Katy 16:52

Yeah. Yeah. Um, Amy, what did you what what were your shadows' thoughts?

Amy 16:56

Yeah, similar to Allison, really. I think the fact it's a graphic novel, so it's a little bit more known to them. They know this format. This is something that they read all the time, they're more comfortable with it. I think it definitely benefits from that. But I think as well, I do think it's a really accomplished retelling of the story. And it does add something extra for modern readers. I think that's a really important thing about the illustration we've already touched on. We're not just looking for pictorial upholstery, the judges will be looking for where the illustrations add, and I think even though this is such a known tale, they really do add to that reading experience and that understanding of it and will bring new audiences in. However, and I don't know if you want to keep this or not, I can't help wondering do we think that the recent BBC drama is a benefit to this or not? Because a lot of my shadowers had already watched the BBC, the TV series that was on not that long ago, so then came to that already with this visual image in their head. Yeah. Whereas normally with the retelling of its graphic novel, then you've got your own images in your head, and it's about how that fits. And I really can't decide what the answer is myself, whether or not that's been a bonus or a bit of really sad timing almost.

Katy 18:16

Is there is there a particular anniversary of it or something? Why they've both happened at the same time? Or I couldn't work out because I like you. Suddenly we've got Lord of the Flies everywhere.

Ali 18:27

Just looking at the back though, it was published 1954, so 70 years on, presumably that means it's just come out of copyright, which might have something to do with it as well. That's true. Yeah, yeah.

Katy 18:37

Interesting. Yeah, I feel a bit mixed about it, but it's such a book of its time. And yes, I can see it being a vehicle for that discussion about toxic masculinity, but there are so many other things in the context of that book. I have mixed feelings about it as a book. I think it's clearly has grabbed your readers as a story which they could get immersed in. And I think, Amy, as you said, the illustrations do add something. It is, although it is a faithful retelling. And I think she says in the back that all of the dialogue and all the text that she's put in there are is straight from the book. She hasn't adapted any of that. It brings it to life in a different way.

Alison 19:17

I do wonder about though, in terms of accessibility level, so the novel itself is quite a challenge for students to read. But when you're teaching it, you're teaching them to understand the kind of things that Golding is trying to say, the things that people say about what Golding is trying to say, how he presents certain elements of colonial society. And then this graphic novel, though, I think makes the book accessible in a way to children who are gonna come at it without having that context taught to them and without understanding any of that. And they're gonna read it as the surface kind of thing about boys turn wild and kill people and kill animals, and it how ew look, it's really gross. Wow, there's loaded blood, there's someone's dead. I don't know if it's a sort of responsible thing to have some of the kids accessing it like that.

Katy 20:14

Yeah, I think that's what I was saying. You said that much better than I did in terms of being slight feeling slightly uncomfortable about it as a book and how it is read, and almost that it's one of those books that you want to be read with that critical support and interrogation of it, and that's less likely to happen in this form than it is as it's normally read, and perhaps read at an older age. What age do kids read that now?

Ali 20:41

Is it year nine? Is it GCSE?

Alison 20:44

Yeah. I mean, some do read it younger at in secondary schools, but obviously, with a lot of kind of scaffolding of understanding this context. Yeah, I think my year sevens were well into this one. I was okay with the year 11, but the year sevens, it did make me feel a bit uncomfortable. They're not going to actually understand the story properly, I don't think, in the way that we would want them to.

Katy 21:07

Yeah. Amy, any thoughts?

Amy 21:09

Yeah, I completely disagree, to be honest. I think it's like especially going back to the fact that we are talking about an illustration award. Actually, the illustrations add an awful lot of that critical depth that we're looking for. Like a deep reading, and it's difficult because I'm flicking through the book as we're talking, and I really wish I could hold pages up. But even if we look at how the island is presented at the start, the illustrations go a long way to depicting this really the possibility of a really tranquil, peaceful, almost paradise on earth place. The colours are really lush, it's bright. There's a lot of smiling at the start, even though they realize that they're trapped here. It feels like quite a nice place. If you're going to be on a ship trekked island, maybe this is where you want to be. And then the use of darkness and so many angles in the Book as it goes on, all the illustrations become really pointed, and I think all of that adds to this sense of brutality, it really comes through all the way to the end. And again, I know I can't hold up a picture, and anyone listening might not have the book, but when and if they do have the opportunity to have the book, they absolutely must turn to the very, very last illustrations after the text is finished, and there's just a very close-up picture of a warship. And for me, on the closing of that book, and that feeling when you close that cover and you sit back and you reflect, and you might reflect for five seconds, you might reflect for the next few days. That to me encapsulated so much about our society now and our approach to things and the futility of war. I genuinely think that the illustrations in this book do an awful lot to bring it to life and to bring it to a new audience and to encourage them to be critical readers. The other example that I really wanted to share is when the adult arrives at the end, the I don't really know how she's done it, but she manages to make these same faces that we've now traveled 300 odd pages with. All of a sudden they all age backwards. They go to being children again. The whites of the eye, their eyes look so much clearer, their eyes are bigger. And just that return to innocence, maybe, and stepping away from what they've come. Yeah, I think it's brilliant. It's something that I'm really pleased to share with any of my students.

Katy 23:38

Yeah, I totally get you with that page. As you say at the end, it is enormously effective where they suddenly do go back to being children. Yeah, I think it's interesting that we've seen it in different ways. And did your, did you see your young people, your children who read it, the pupils who read it, did they see and read it in that way?

Amy 23:57

Mine, yeah, absolutely. We shared some other pages first. In the group, we used a visualizer to share some of them. And then those that have gone away and read it, yeah, they really did respond to it. And quite thoughtful readings. I think maybe the difference might be though, I'm doing this as a book club, so I'm not looking for it as a teaching material. I'm looking at it from the eye view of is it a really like what's the reading experience? And that's where the judges are looking, as opposed to how is this going to be a teaching tool? And as a reader's experience, I think it offers an awful lot.

Alison 24:32

I think probably part of my problem is because I don't like the book anyway, and I don't like it being taught, and I think it has a horrible message about boys because I teach it at boys' school. I really don't like that. As I think maybe it's hard for me to get past that when I'm watching them gleefully reading it exactly in the way that I'm like, no, boys aren't inherently like that. Please stop that maybe I'm just projecting my own issues with the book onto this. Because of course it is great if kids are engaged, and I want them to be engaged and I want them to read it, and maybe they will get a different message out of it than the one I want them to get. But I think my problem with Lord of the Flies is too big for me to get over. That's where my fears are for this being so popular with the boys at school.

Katy 25:21

Yeah. Well, we all bring our own baggage, don't we? To all of our books, absolutely. And and I think going back to the illustration, it does work really effectively in terms of bringing the book to life and as being said, opening up to another audience. Shall we go on to the next one?

Katy 25:40

Shall I do that one? Yeah. So the next book is The Sleeper Train by Baljinder Kaur, written by Mick Jackson and again published by Walker. Walker done really well in the Illustrated Prize this year. So it's about a little girl and her family aboard a sleeper train in India setting off through the night towards their destination. And she's just too excited to sleep. So we get her take on the journey. Amy, do you want to go first with this one?

Amy 26:08

Yeah. Yeah, my group have it's not their favourite, but they've responded well to it. I think there's a great use of colour in this. It's a really vibrant read. They've enjoyed that. We did some activities, so because I'm running, I do a few different shadowing groups, but I try to as much as possible. We don't just sit down and talk about the books, we do activities on them. So the activity we really enjoyed from this was charting some of the different places that we've slept. So looking at where the weirdest places we've slept are and our favourite, the ones that we don't want to return to. So it brought out really fun activities in the book club to bring the book to life for them, illustration-wise. I think it makes really, really good use of cultural motifs. There's an awful lot to explore. And one of my year eights in particular has read the book multiple times because they're really, really enjoying charting different characters and different motifs through the book. So seeing what Gran's like all the way through, we presume it was Gran and Dad and what are their personalities like and all the different things that the illustrations offer that the text is on one level, and then the illustrations add so much depth.

Ali 27:22

And the colours are beautiful, aren't they? I think all those pinks and oranges. I think it is it Rajasthan that's all those colours, the kind of walls and the is it Jaipur that's the pink city, one of those. See, I don't know. I've been, I've no idea. But it's that kind of those dusty, beautiful pinks and oranges are just gorgeous. Feels warm. And it feels for me, it read as a proper bedtime storybook.

Alison 27:48

Yeah, that's exactly what I felt like too. And like how the illustrations have so much going on. So there's so much time you can spend looking at them, finding all the things that are in them. I love this, it's like a classic picture book to me. And I'm just talking about me, not the kids. I'll talk about the kids' view in a minute. I just loved it. I loved the the journey that it takes us on. Literally, I love all the illustrations. I love the family dynamic. I love all the food and just all the things that are happening outside of the main bit of the picture as well. All the background characters, all the background sort of activity that's going on. I really like this one. This is my favourite one. The students, this wasn't their favourite one. They thought the illustrations are really funny. They love the illustrations from that perspective. They love the kind of exaggerated features on some of the characters in it. They thought that was really funny. And they the food, though, as soon as there's the person, there's a woman who's got a a basket of either bananas or yams, and that caused a huge kind of discussion in my with my groups about planting or yam and all the kind of things that grannies would make, and it caused this connection for them that I don't think they even recognized themselves that they had this connection to this story about a family that isn't like their family on a train that they've never been on in a country they've never been to, but they still found that connection through the food, and which I thought was really interesting. I I love this one, but I haven't said that already.

Alison 29:22

Think we know this one is your favourite. I really liked it too. I think that as you've all said, the colourway is so distinctive. It's pink and the oranges, and it's muted, and it, as Ali said, a bedtime story that because it as it goes through all the different places to sleep, that is like that really natural prompt to have those conversations about where did you last sleep and all of those kind of things. But uh yeah, so many things to look at, and that that sort of rhythm of a bedtime story where it goes through all of those sleep here, and then you think it's gonna get lively again because they arrive at their destination and there's all the meeting and greeting and a whole load of new people, and then the last bit again is and we'll go to sleep thinking about the rhythm of the train, and that I thought was really nice. Yeah. And focusing on the illustrations, they do carry the story and add lots to it.

Ali 30:15

Yeah, definitely.

Katy 30:16

I love the idea that somebody's gone and focused on individual characters as they've gone through as well.

Amy 30:21

We've not mentioned it yet, but really it's an example of absolutely fantastic use of the gutter. It really is. Again, I'm flicking through it now, and there's certain pages where the layout is absolutely perfect and really plays around with the perspective a little bit. Yeah, every inch is used, isn't it, in the book to full advantage. They're just beautifully. I don't know how it was done, whether it was done it must have been done, I think, as art and then transferred onto thing. I don't feel like you could make it without actual art materials rather than just being a screen, but I don't know.

Katy 30:58

Yeah, it's hard to tell.

Ali 31:00

It feels like even I who can't draw could have a go at drawing one of the kind of sunset y pictures.

Amy 31:06

I was just gonna say, we've not really talked about it, but all the resources available on the shadowing website to group leaders, and there is the option there that young people can upload their own artwork that's been inspired by these books. There's some really good examples of artwork from the Shadowers that's been inspired by the sleeper train. It's worth looking at.

Ali 31:26

Brilliant. Okay. We'll make sure we link to that so people can see it.

Katy 31:30

Yeah. I was just looking back through, and in some of the leaves, there are little eyes peering out as well. They're just so many little things like that to spot, aren't there? And uh the person in the sea is are they waving or drowning? Is the question. Somebody looks like they're running towards them. Yeah, lots going on. So, what have we got next? Ah, next. We've got Wildful. And the illustrator is Kengo Kurimoto, uh, who's also the author. Uh, and this is Pushkin's children's books. And this is a it's nearly wordless graphic novel that follows a young girl whose mother is clearly grieving and has been unable to leave the house following the death of her mother, the child's grandmother. And we see the girl sort of walking out of the house, taking the dog for the walk, ducked her phone, and she the dog pulls her through into this wooded area where she meets a boy and just slows down and explores what's in the wood. And yeah, I will say this is my favourite. Start out with that. But Alison, do you want to go first on this one?

Alison 32:40

Yeah, sure. Really like this one. The boys really liked this one. I even had a boy, I took it with me to my detention duty to read it there, and a boy took it off me, as is always the way when I take books like this to detention. And he read the whole thing in his hour detention and was so pleased with himself because he's not a reader, and he read a whole book in an hour, and he was talking to me about it, and even though he's got quite low literacy, he doesn't ever read for pleasure. He talked about how he thinks the book is about how nature can help you deal with sadness, which I thought was quite an insightful read from him, and the illustrations are the story, so he's got all that from the illustrations. It's also interesting that another boy said that he thought all the illustrations could be put one page each, and it could have been like a flick book. Like you could follow the whole story, just flicking through the whole thing, because those cells where it's just have faced slightly changing expression in each image. He was like, if you put them all one after the other, this could be um one of those. It's called a flick book, right?

Katy 33:48

Yeah, flip, flip, yeah. Amy, what did you make of it and your pupils make of it?

Amy 33:52

Um, yeah, we've really enjoyed this one. I think this is an example of why shadowing in schools can be so important and so impactful because if I'm honest, I don't think this is a book that most of my students would automatically pull off the shelves, but it really has something to say. It's a very quiet graphic novel, and shadowing does that, it introduces us to different titles and different styles that we wouldn't necessarily find ourselves, certainly not books that belong on the supermarket shelves and that. So I think it's a really good example of the power of shadowing. I also love a wordless picture book. I really do. I think there's obviously so accessible, but it's also this they give you that time to pause. So I think the book format complements what the book's message is because we do have to pause and slow down to enjoy this book. It's not a book that you can race through, read the text, and then you're done and you move on to the next one. You really have to stop and consider this. And I think that's what the book's urging us to do all the way through. When I was reading it, I was thinking very much I went on a forest bathing session last summer, and it's really got that feel to it. The whole reader experience is akin to what the book's telling us about, which I thought was very clever. Again, doing activities, we've had some really fun activities. So we did the whole let's just sit, let's just sit for five minutes silently and just watch. And I tell you what, that's Did you make it through the five minutes? I did. I did have some raised eyebrows at a couple of points telling them silently to do it, but it's really difficult. I found it difficult. So to be a 12, 13, 14-year-old who's always picking up the mobile phone and they're always on to the next thing. Actually, it was a really powerful activity, just that I think she calls it a sit spot. And just to find our sit spot and stop, it was almost like I suppose early meditation for them. We liked the stargazing pages once mum does come out and they're looking at the stars. There was so much potential there for different activities and different ways to bring the book to life. It's definitely a book that draws the reader in it. It doesn't draw it, it invites the reader into the story and really, I think, encourages us to look at to appreciate the natural world and to enjoy it and to recognise all the healing qualities that it offers us. Where I'm based, I'm in Cumbria, and we're just a few miles really from the Lake District. So a lot of our students are very used to living in the natural world, and that's what they're surrounded by, and a lot of farmers and villages and all of that sort of thing. So it's a book that really spoke to them and encouraged them to get out and appreciate everything that they'd got on their own doorsteps.

Alison 36:37

Well, kind of in response to that, what was really interesting about it is that because it isn't in a countryside setting, right? It meant that for my students too, there's that they can see that they can find that nature in London too, that it is it's everywhere. Yeah.

Ali 36:53

Yeah, and taking the opportunity to just stop and be and is a message for all of us, isn't it? Just get off your phone and go for a walk. That's it. Go and see what you can find and enjoy the world.

Katy 37:06

Yeah, absolutely. I just I it reminded me of some of Anthony Brown's books as well, the kind of disappearing into forests and the stories there, and all of the things that if you're quiet and still enough, you can see and discover and open your mind up to. And yeah, I liked really liked the fact that it was wordless. I also a fan of wordless picture books. And just the way in which it's it's very two-tone in in terms of the pictures, there's nothing noisy in the pictures in that sense. The pictures are that quietness as well, but there's so many little details and things to find, but they sort of work on different levels as you go through the book. And I like that idea of the flip book and that you could flip through it because they are very much sort of capturing single moments. So you've got this moment with a bird, the moment when the deer appears, the moment when she sees the boy. There are lots of little moments that all add up to the story. I really like it.

Ali 38:07

It reminded me as well of the arrival, yeah. The colour the colouring ways of that kind of slowdown journey of where you're going. Anyway, it's great. I think it's really good.

Amy 38:20

Just one more thing I thought that I wanted to share. We've talked about some of the previous books about the end papers, and the end papers in this are very different because they're there's not an awful lot going on. But actually, what they do, because we do have those sepier tones running throughout the book, the rip, like the rich, deep, but not quite bright, but a really rich yellow of the end papers. It creates as you're going through the book, you've got that feeling of hope there as well, coming through the colour association, and then just the very, very gentle blossom branches creeping into the in from the top corners. I think this is an example of simple end papers that are still very skillfully done. There's still part of the story.

Katy 39:04

Yeah, yeah. No, that's that is true. Cool. Um, and and on the front, there's there is a sort of very subtle touch of purple and a bit of yellow in there as well, with the with because the title is actually in the same yellow as the end papers. But there's a very, very light bit of colour at the bottom of the front cover, which isn't obviously in the interior illustrations. So, anyway, really like that one. Go on to the next one.

Ali 39:31

This book is Freedom Braids, illustrated by Oboh Moses and written by Monique Duncan, and the publisher is Lantana, and it's inspired by the true history of enslaved African women in Colombia who encoded escape routes, warnings, and maps in elaborate hair braiding patterns. And it follows the story of young Nemi working daily in the sugar cane fields. So, what do we think about this one? Alison or Amy? Do you want to start on this one again?

Amy 39:59

Yeah, can do. First of all, the subject I found really interesting, that whole hidden history is again that I didn't know that this was a thing, that there were stories and messages contained within the different types of braiding and cornrows. So I really I love that. I love a book, especially picture book, that can teach us, any of us, something. Illustration-wise, I think there are examples of really like real greatness. There really is. There are some outstanding qualities to it. I'm not sure that travels all the way through the book. I think on some pages it does fall into just being pictorial upholstery, but where it's done well, it is done very well. There's a nice use of light and shadow. Again, perspective is used really interestingly, and layout is quite dark, a lot of the illustrations. So the use of layout to give the text space that works very well and is cleverly done. I'm just not quite convinced that as a whole, it's as strong as some of the other options.

Katy 41:03

Yeah. Alison?

Alison 41:04

My students love this one. As soon as you open up the first page and you've got all the pictures of the different hairstyles, then there was a lot of discussion started immediately about hair, about getting your hair done, about that whole experience. Then as you're reading it, I think it's only the second, second or third page where the people are having their hair done. Again, there was more discussion there. Some of them were saying that there's no way that girl wouldn't be crying because that really hurts. And like about one of them, it was really funny one boy said, because they they commented that it was only women doing hair. And one of them said, Have you ever let your uncle do your hair? And then they all were laughing, saying you only let your uncle do it once and never again. Because apparently uncles are really painful when they do it. So it was what that's what I love about this book is that it created this whole discussion and this kind of connection for the boys with each other and with the book. The main character is a girl, that didn't matter, they still felt a connection to her. They they um I said like talking about the hair and getting to that bit with the hair, and then I think it's the next page of that where it becomes more clear that this is about slavery, and so they were quite shocked then that it was about slavery. But I didn't know about the freedom braids, I know about the kind of messaging through song and quilts, I didn't know about it through hair, so that's really interesting, and I think it's a really cool way of giving that message and telling that story as well. I also didn't know about those little kind of enclaves within Columbia of freedom, which again I think is really great that that story's been told story that we didn't know, similar to the endless sea. So yeah, I think maybe I agree with you that some of the illustrations were more just kind of decoration than telling the story, maybe. But I think the discussions that came from this book were so powerful for my students, I can't kind of overlook that.

Katy 43:03

Yeah, it's really interesting. I I feel I think a bit the same about the illustrations that some of them just didn't hold together entirely. I think the one at the end, the last spread. I I almost felt like they should be told to put various things in, and that some of the elements have been added in afterwards, I suppose, is what I felt about that.

Ali 43:21

Felt like an afterthought.

Alison 43:23

Yeah, that was confusing as well to to the boys and me, where I wasn't really sure what time that picture was, because that felt a lot more modern.

Katy 43:34

Yeah, I also found the story fascinating, really interesting. It just puts quite a lot of onus on the adult reader. If you're reading it with a very young child, to put it into context and to understand that context as well. And so I think it is more a book for an older child who so when you when your older children were reading it, they understood the context. Of slavery. It wasn't a concept that you were introducing to them. And so I suppose that was my question is in with it in terms of if you were reading it to a very young child that you might read a picture book to, how would you put that into context? And what context would you give them? And that just puts quite a lot of uh bonus on the adult reader to explain that context and do it well. And that's my kind of challenge about the book.

Amy 44:25

See, I didn't see the book as being a sort of story time book that you would share in that way. I think it's much more of a curriculum book and a book for older children. So talking key stage two, probably. It's a tool for teachers about those hidden histories, and it works really well as that. I don't think I'd ever use it in a story time.

Katy 44:44

But I think the how No, I'm thinking more of sorry, I'm thinking more of parents picking it up and that that a parent might pick it up and read it and then get partway through and realize okay, this isn't what this isn't what I thought, and this takes quite a lot of explaining. But yeah, I agree. In a school, I think it it works.

Ali 45:02

And there's lots of you were saying, Alison, there's lots of ways into the story, I think. With the hairstyles, there's a lot of discussion.

Alison 45:09

And I think that probably there are conversations about the fact of slavery happening in families who have historically or ancestrally been affected by slavery from from a much younger age than maybe we're we're giving credit for. I think there's an understanding and a knowledge from a younger age within lots of families. So I think I can parents that this book would appeal to. I I think it's it ha holds a strong place for that, I think. Yeah, I think that's fair.

Katy 45:41

Sorry, Amy, I interrupted you.

Amy 45:42

I suppose I think what I was thinking was as a celebration of black hair, then it's really, really powerful. And I think the story it tells is very powerful. I just don't think for an award that's about illustration, it's a strong contender. Fantastic for other things, definitely worth having on the shelves and sharing, but not just in terms of the illustrative quality okay, fair enough.

Katy 46:07

Ali, is it your turn on my turn?

Ali 46:10

Okay. The Paper Bridge, Seng Soun Ratanavanh, is the illustrator, and it's written by Joelle Veryrenc, and it's translated by Katie Lockwood Holmes, and this is a Florist Books. In the village of Paperly, where everything, including its paper, is made of paper. The villagers dread the summer winds that threaten to blow them away. So it's about an unexpected wind that arrives out of season.

Katy 46:35

So what did you think? Alison, you start on this one.

Alison 46:38

It's such a lovely story, and the illustrations are so clever. The whole thing is done with paper cut, cut-out paper and then photograph. And so the detail is incredible. I love the colours, I love the the differentiation between the people from Paperly, the colouring, and then the people from Forest. Is it Forrest Lee?

Katy 46:59

Forestly, yeah.

Alison 47:00

Yeah, and the difference in colour there, I think is really clever. The whole thing is so much effort. Like it's just fascinating to me. So I was really, really impressed with it. The boys, not so much. They sort of flicked through this one. They weren't as engaged by the illustrations in this one. I had to point out to them that it was cut-out paper for them to look more closely. Then they were just kind of like, oh yeah. Um they really, I don't know if maybe the the colours weren't for them. I'm not sure, but I think this is a really like we said, sleeper train was a really nice kind of nighttime, bedtime read. I think this one is as well. I like this one.

Katy 47:40

Yeah. Amy, do you have any?

Ali 47:42

Yeah. I think in terms of just the production value and like what the production and the artistry, how it's created, it's just absolutely stunning. There's so much depth to it and so much to pick through and find. I think the I'm almost loath to call them illustrations because it feels like so much more, but so much deeper than what we would normally think of as an illustration. But whatever we're calling it, it's so strong. So compared to Freedom Braids, I think this is the other way around. This is where the illustrations or the pictures are really, really powerful. In this book, we do a great job of telling the story. The bridge at the end where it's been reinforced with cardboard, I thought was very clever, and then going through and noticing so much. And things that we recognize as well was really lots and lots of fun. So where at one point they're carrying scissors, but the scissors represent, I'm not quite sure what the scissors represent, some sort of carriage, maybe. But that inclusion of recognizable things is just genius. Talking of genius, it does say at the back, which blows me away, that the artist she taught herself this kirigami to illustrate this book. So presumably, this is her. Well, she's taught herself this is her first creation. I'm sure there's a lot of practice involved, but how incredible is that? Because I tell you what, we as shadowers have tried having a go at kirigami. It was very fiddly, it was very frustrating. We had a great time, but none of us were very good at it. I think it's incredible what she's achieved.

Katy 49:20

It is incredibly intricate, isn't it? And it must have just taken hours to do. And agree, there is so much to find in each of the I don't know, they're not illustrations, aren't they? They're like almost like a diorama, aren't they? The way that she's built them in, she's they're built in boxes, aren't they? With different to the perspective is with the different bits of cut-out paper at different set at different points in the box and then photographed. And yeah, and they are very much part of the story and move the story on and add stuff that isn't in the words. I'm interested that I can see the reaction of your students, Alison, that they once they clock them, they go, Oh yeah, okay. And then because it probably takes a slightly different way of thinking about it in terms of once you've spotted how she's doing them, you can't help being just a wonder at the detail that she's that's been included and then get sucked into them. But I can also see that they're so detailed and fine that it's not blasting out of the page at you. Ali, what did you think?

Ali 50:26

I think it's just beautiful. The art's incredible. The kind of words though seem to be slightly separate in a slightly longer story. Does that make any sense at all?

Katy 50:37

Yeah, I know what you mean. On some of the pages, there's like a band of words at the bottom. And I've and then I think that kind of just represents how hard it was to perhaps integrate the illustrations with the words.

Ali 50:49

So there's a kind of story and the beautiful illustrations, and I don't know if they totally work together like they do in some of the other stories, some of the other books that we've talked about. As an illustration piece, though, it's phenomenal. But I just wonder if that when we you're talking about some of the other books we've talked about where the illustrations tell the story. I'm not completely sure how this matches together as as well. Yeah. Any other thoughts?

Katy 51:15

No, I think they the illustrations do add to the story and they do carry parts of it. I think there is just in terms of how it's been put together, there you are conscious once you start looking at it that the words and the pictures are separate. Whereas in we're gonna go on and look at wiggling words where there the pictures and the words are literally all together. And in some of the other books, there they are much more kind of integrated.

Alison 51:44

So yeah. I think with paper bridge it works as kind of like a narrator while the children are looking at the picture, though. You know, like where with some of the others, like play day or sleeper train, you're almost like following the reading and then you look at the pictures together. Yeah, I feel like with this one, it's like you're reading the words while the children are looking. I'm talking about young children while they're looking at the pictures, so it's it's sort of different, it's a different way of reading, I think.

Katy 52:12

Yeah, no, I I can see that.

Amy 52:14

Um I was just looking up there, make sure I got the name right. Jeannie Baker, I don't know if anyone's come across her books, they tend to be wordless and very, very similar in crafting to these. So about using different objects to build up a wider picture. There is something, I don't think she doesn't use kirigami, but there's definitely a feel to them, which would be somewhere to like that idea I was fine with shadowing that we've read that book and then the winners are announced, but actually, we want some sort of legacy, and the legacy here might be that we then go and look at other books that use this sort of artistic style. I think I agree with Ali though, like I can't get over the skill and the artistry of what she's created, but in terms of the illustrations having a synergy with the text and like adding to the reader experience, other than just awe at what she's created, I'm not sure that they do an awful lot. They look really good, and I'm very impressed that anyone can create this. But there is a book.

Katy 53:17

Yeah, yeah. I think we all so we'll we'll feel a bit of that. But okay. Final one, we have Wiggling Words, which is illustrated and written by Kate Royf, and the publisher is Two Hoots, and it is the story of a child who desperately wants to read a book to the end, but the letters keep wiggling and jiggling and jumping about, and she gets very frustrated and they tip a mountain of letters out of the book, and then starts playing with them and playing with them creatively and discovering them in different ways, and then discovers that she can build stories and things out of those letters. So that this is literally the letters and words of the book being being part of the illustration. Amy, do you want to go first on this one? What did you your what did you think? What did your shadowers think?

Amy 54:07

Yeah, so clever, this one. I think this is a really great example of synergy between the text and the illustrations working well and the power that picture books can have to engage but also to reflect either our own experiences or allow us to view and understand other people's experiences. Really, with very little text, there's a fantastic use of colour. I really like, and it's probably a really small thing, but I love that the font that she's used for the text is also dyslexia friendly. I think it's those sort of attention to detail that make this a really successful picture book. I love the bit at the end where there's a castle and it's laid out with the letters of home. There's a book pile, or there's a book on a massive pile of letters, and you can just see at the top that there's a book on top of there, and it really captures that idea of sometimes books feeling completely dense and that inaccessible, and we just can't fight our way in. And the this book absolutely allows us and helps us to fight our way into books for those people who might not find that easy normally. Yeah, it's fresh, it's unique, very good.

Katy 55:27

Yeah. Alison, do your views?

Alison 55:29

I had boys in the year seven group who said that it was about them. And then in the year eight group, one of the boys said it was about him, and then had a conversation with the other students saying, This is about me because I have dyslexia, and then the other boy was saying, Me too. So it had this weird empowering thing that you know that books can have. And then that same boy also is in the Carnegie shadowing group. So when we met to go through them again, when I said we're gonna go through these, and like I know you've already looked at them, and he said, Oh, where's the one about me? And he took it and then he read it to another boy, and it was just so lovely. And I thought this really is the power of books, and it and yeah, the illustrations are so entwined with the story, they are the story, and I love this kind of stamping method, it's really clever. I I do think this is a great book. It's it spoke to the children, and it the illustrations are really clever.

Ali 56:25

Yeah, the typeface use of the typeface is really clever.

Katy 56:28

Yeah, I really like this one as well. And as you said, I think it's very simple in that there are in terms of colour, in that the child is in sort of shades, different shades of blue, and the letters are red, and the typeface is black, and those are the only colours that go through it. And it's just very simple. And then there's the red is used both as the colours, and then there's a page where the child is really angry and and rips up the book, and that's all red as well, and that feels it works really well. And I like the way that when the child is upset after that, the tears or punctuation dropping down. But there are so many clever bits to it, and it feels it's nice to look at. It does just feel very complete, and everything has been very carefully thought about exactly where everything is sitting on the page, and exactly what work each illustration and each letter, yeah. And just all of those which letters they pull together and in terms of building stuff. And I think that the points where that all the letters fall out of the book and you have that mountain, as you said, Amy, that how insurmountable sometimes getting into a book can feel and seem, it comes across really, really nicely. The other page that I really liked is when he's built the he or she, it's not clear and I don't think it matters, has built the castle, is sitting at the top of it in in in an O reading a book and just happily sorted that out. So yeah, anything you want to add, Ali? Don't think so.

Ali 58:08

I think it's just beautiful use of colour and it's like a limited palette, but it's just really lovely.

Katy 58:14

I think the only other thing I would add, and Ali was laughing at me about this when we were talking about it.

Ali 58:18

I've not got it in front of me to feel it.

Katy 58:20

It's got a really nice texture. The book cover has a really nice texture. It's like that textured, yeah.

Alison 58:27

It's the nostalgic feel, like it felt like books I had as a kid, and the colours as well. It's like I don't know if there's some some kind of trend of the 70s, the eighties to have this kind of like one or two colours and that kind of feel, but it definitely gave me a nostalgic vibe. But when I spoke to the boys about it in terms of illustration, they didn't think it counted as illustration. So it is interesting because they they thought it was really clever, they loved how it was done, they loved the story, but to them, the the work that created Wildfull or Endless Sea or Freedom Braids or Lord of the Flies or whatever, they consider that illustration and they don't consider this.

Katy 59:10

That's interesting. Is it because it's so sort of stylised and because it is quite yeah? I totally get what you mean about the nostalgic feel, and it is very sort of designy and design-led. So I'm conscious that we have already been going a long time. Should we have a very quick who do we think the shadows will vote for? And we always get this wrong. Who do we think will win? Views? Is anyone gonna jump in?

Amy 59:38

Should I jump in first? I think, and it might just because it's what I want to see, but I think the Endless Sea will be the judge's winner, and I think that Lord of the Flies will be the Shadower's choice. So I'm really sorry to both those books if I have now scuppered their chances because I've jinxed your book.

Katy 59:59

I think I am with you on the Endless Sea as being the judge's choice. I think in the shadowers, I think it may not be the Lord of the Flies just because it's an older book and most of the shadowers for the pictures will be younger. So I think that they might go for The Sleeper Train and maybe won't there. Anyone else?

Alison 1:00:25

I'm also going for Sleeper Train as shadower, Sleeper Train or Freedom Braids. And um I I agree it's gonna be Endless Sea from the Judges. I I do think it will be, but I want it to be Sleeper Train, so I'm gonna say Sleeper Train. I'm putting it into the universe.

Ali 1:00:42

I think you're right. I think it will be the Endless Sea as the Judges winner. I wonder if Wildful might do it for the Shadowers, because it has that graphic novel feel, and the younger ones would read it as well as the older ones. I don't know.

Katy 1:00:58

Yeah, you might be right. I would be very happy to be.

Ali 1:01:00

We're rarely right.

Katy 1:01:01

No, we're rarely right. And I I really like the Play Date as a book.

Ali 1:01:05

And I think I think in the year without this without the the Endless Sea. Without the Endless Sea, the Play Date might have won the judges. It might still but you know what I mean. I feel with both those in that the Endless Sea will the the subject matter will trump the Play Date. What do I know?

Katy 1:01:24

Yeah. I think also just the illustrations in that show lots of different levels and tones and different approaches and work with the story in different ways. I think is probably why the endless sea is, I think, the strongest one in terms of illustration. But who knows? We have never, Alison, you were right on the writing last year. We haven't done pictures before for the illustration, so we don't know. So thank you very much. There are lots of information on the Carnegie website about how you can access the books and the shadowing. Obviously, if you're not doing it this year, sign up for next year. And the announcement is on the 23rd of June, so you can look out then to see how wrong or right we are. But it's a great short list and lots of things there to enjoy. So thank you.